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Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

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Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#281
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could've sworn they had to walk that back: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-disney-technology-h1b-...

They only "walked it back" enough to squash the bad PR they were getting. Once the headlines went away they went forward with their plan after all: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/26/us/lawsuit-claims-disney-c...

These were two separate instances of layoffs. The grandparent link is not related to yours (except that both stories involve Disney, and both involve layoffs).

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#282

Here's what I don't get... If you have any options at all, why stay at a company with sub-par technology that abuses their workers? They've been stuck in low 3 Glassdoor [0] range for a while. It's layoff after layoff as they slowly dismantle the company. Why stay? Geographic limitations? Narrow skillsets? [0] https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/IBM-Reviews-E354.htm#trend...

If you're working in startups, you're used to expecting everyone to do a bit of everything. In large companies, however, you're expected to specialize within a specific area. The problem is, even if you're spending a few hours a week outside of work learning new things, you're not likely to have many opportunities to show off your other skills, which makes it harder and harder to move not only within the company, but to other companies.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#283
post #247
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other people have pointed out how rough the period around 2000 was but it's also worth looking at how similar things were the previous time that'd happened in the early 90s when the defense contractors laid off a ton of engineers as the Cold War died down. That meant that you had large numbers of people with similar backgrounds all on the job market, in the same areas at the same time, competing for a sharply reduced…

A lot of people are responding with historical examples of qualified people unable to find jobs, but I think that strengthens my point. If you can do aircraft stress analysis, you're qualified to do a whole host of technical jobs with very little retraining; it's just a matter of finding those who are willing to take a chance. You don't have to wait for another stress analysis job.

Examples of qualified people unable to find jobs are evidence that it's easy for qualified people to find jobs? You're going to have to explain this to me.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#284
post #272
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's wasn't the first Cold War related layoff period, we largely stopped fighting it in the '70s (roughly "Vietnam" through when the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan gave Carter a clue), and between that and the end of the Apollo program aerospace crashed and never returned to its old level. My family hired an EE to do electrical engineering in ~1972 and he was thrilled to be able to get back to it after doing al…

> through when the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan gave Carter a clue) I've not heard that before - what clue did it give him?

That his approach to the Soviets was not correct, and, say, his literal as well as figurative hugging of Brezhnev was ill advised. He made a number of replies, only two or so of which were productive:

Issued an ultimatum that we would not attend the upcoming Summer Olympics held in Moscow if they did not withdraw. That really showed them!

Grain export embargo, which only hurt us, and is generally considered to be immoral in a non-hot war context, as Reagan pointed out.

Reinstated draft registration, which did not go down well after he'd pardoned Vietnam era draft dodgers on his first day in office.

Reversed course with relations with Pakistan, which he'd previously trashed, and with it supported the Mujahideen fighting the Soviets.

In theory reversed course and started rearming, although due to the budget cycle that pretty much had to be proposals that would only be fulfilled by the next president, which of course didn't turn out to be him (note that Wikipedia's entries on him are silent on this general issue, you have to e.g. go to the B-1 bomber page to learn of his canceling it, and how difficult a decision he said it was).

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#285

Here's what I don't get... If you have any options at all, why stay at a company with sub-par technology that abuses their workers? They've been stuck in low 3 Glassdoor [0] range for a while. It's layoff after layoff as they slowly dismantle the company. Why stay? Geographic limitations? Narrow skillsets? [0] https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/IBM-Reviews-E354.htm#trend...

I needed a job. You make it sounds incredibly easy to find work. I have less than 2 years experience in the industry. After getting fired from a startup, I was desperate to get my foot in the door anywhere. I was also desperate to pay my rent. IBM have filled both those needs.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#286

There have been a couple folks on Facebook reporting that the H1-B folks they trained are staying while they are let go (ala Disney et al).

This is my #1 worry about our industry - Zuckerberg and his folks will get that FWD.us thing passed and use to to ship cheap Indian engineers over here. Call me an asshole if you want but don't be shocked when it happens to you.

I have no problem with tech companies bringing foreign workers into the US. I have a deep problem with them being here on H1B visas that make them little more than indentured servants.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#287
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

H1Bs are our century's slaves, imported to work the tech plantations. Cheaper than locals. Fewer rights. Easier to exploit. And also make their owners a lot of money. In this case they are better off for it, that much has changed.

This is quite a harsh analysis but not too far from the truth. The limitations placed on H1Bs and the fact that you are really easier to exploit is one of the main reasons I have chosen in the past to go to a different country for work. If an H1B had the same rights as say a Tier 1 migrant in the UK you would see A LOT less abuse of this system. A Tier 1 migrant in the UK has total freedom over who they can work for.…

Tier 2 migrants are far more common in the UK and subject to similar restrictions as H1B.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#288
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The paper: https://dx.doi.org/10.1002/smj.2192 The PR version: http://today.tamu.edu/2015/10/15/ceo-effect-on-firm-performa...

It's not: 'citation needed' it's rather: 'research is unreliable and, one paper shows x, the next paper shows not-x'

So what, just ignore all research and go with your gut feeling?

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#289
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, your point is flawed and has no basis in reality. If many (read 10k-1000k order of magnitude depending on location size) skilled engineers are fired at the same time then things get really bad for engineers. * All the companies than need any engineering based work done can take their pick of the best. * But remember their normal recruitment channels are still open and feeding potential employees through. They may…

Also well worth reading about T.J Watson. IBM was one of the few American companies that had no layoffs during the depression in the 30's. Inventories built up. No sales. And he was almost fired. Once the recovery started every company and govt in the world wanted a computer and the rest is history.

Recovery from the Depression in the USA started in the mid-late thirties. Are you saying IBM sold computers at that time? Just a matter of terminology here. I would probably not classify IBM's business machines as computers until the 1950's.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#290

Here's what I don't get... If you have any options at all, why stay at a company with sub-par technology that abuses their workers? They've been stuck in low 3 Glassdoor [0] range for a while. It's layoff after layoff as they slowly dismantle the company. Why stay? Geographic limitations? Narrow skillsets? [0] https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/IBM-Reviews-E354.htm#trend...

Say you're a support person working at IBM in Dubuque, Iowa, where local and state taxpayers spent $50M to lure IBM in a delusion of becoming a tech hub. [1] You specialize in Lotus Notes support for local businesses like Hormel. Last year, IBM laid off 2/3 of their Dubuque workforce, 700 people, in a city of 60,000. More than 1% of the population. Your only skill is Notes, same as dozens of other people that were la…

A gentle point - Here is the value of statying in a large city like NYC. Despite its downfalls, and there are many of those, one thing it does not lack is a spectrum of jobs.
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