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David Bowie Has Died

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Re: David Bowie Has Died

#281

Post by eslaught »

malkia wrote: post #235
synthmeat wrote: post #21

I don’t even know why I would want to be on a label in a few years, because I don’t think it’s going to work by labels and by distribution systems in the same way. The absolute transformation of everything that we ever thought about music will take place within 10 years, and nothing is going to be able to stop it. I see absolutely no point in pretending that it’s not going to happen. I’m fully confident that copyrigh…

This reminds me of Francis Ford Coppola interview in 99u.com - http://99u.com/articles/6973/francis-ford-coppola-on-risk-mo... Quoting from the article: Q: How does an aspiring artist bridge the gap between distribution and commerce? A: We have to be very clever about those things. You have to remember that it’s only a few hundred years, if that much, that artists are working with money. Artists never got money. Arti…

But is that the way we want the world to work, or just something we've resigned ourselves to because we think it's inevitable?

I'm pursuing a CS PhD; in my free time, I'm working on a science fiction novel. In some ways, I think a PhD is the perfect vehicle for this since I'm free to "explore" intellectually, as long I still publish in my field. And I make things work: I squirrel away bits of time for writing, and still have enough left over to get my work done.

But I look at the industry (especially in Silicon Valley), and I'm not sure I can expect to keep going on my side projects. Work weeks of 50, 60, or more hours are common at companies in the area, and even more so at startups. I did a lot of interviews for internships and such in undergrad and early grad school, and I would ask interviewers whether they worked on any open source projects during their free time. The answer was almost always no. I found it perplexing at the time, but looking back I think it's a relatively straightforward consequence of the environment people are working in. Most people aren't in a position to take up serious hobbies, and a big part of that is work culture and the sorts of hours employers expect.

I think Coppola is very lucky if he has a job where he can do this balancing act. Perhaps I'll be lucky too, I don't know. But I hope we're not driving our society towards a situation where you need to have some sort of exceptionally flexible day job in order to make progress on your other pursuits. And while I wouldn't want to be a professional artist myself (I love CS too much for that), I do hope that it'll be possible to be paid to do art in the next 100 years.

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#282

Post by beat »

eblanshey wrote: post #257
beat wrote: post #240

David Bowie was one of the greatest entrepreneurs ever. He singlehandedly changed the direction of the entire music industry - repeatedly - for decades . He pulled in ideas and imagery from the most avant-garde corners of culture, and made it accessible and popular. There's hardly a musician out there in rock music or many other forms that hasn't been influenced directly by him. David Bowie relentlessly delivered bol…

> He singlehandedly changed the direction of the entire music industry - repeatedly - for decades. Mind expanding on this? I don't know too much about him.

In the early 70s, he was the leader of the glam movement, introducing androgyny and bisexuality to the music industry, bringing in visuals from the decidedly underground drag and cabaret scenes. In the mid-70s, he crossed American soul into British pop, creating an image that has been used ever since by thousands of lesser pop musicians.

Besides making his own records, he produced albums for barely-controllable outsiders like Lou Reed and Iggy Pop, helping them achieve pop crossover success and survive their own demons.

In the late 70s, he went to Berlin and cranked out three albums of ambient, experimental music that kicked open doors for radical new sounds that fueled the New Wave movement (again with shallow imitation). But he ignored New Wave himself, and instead made fresh, soulful, pop with Let's Dance. In the 1990s, he got heavily involved in the early internet, putting multimedia content on cds and even founding an ISP.

He dialed things back in the 2000s, as age and health took their toll. His two most recent albums were his first in many years. The Next Day was a throwback to his 1970s rock styles. Blackstar brought in jazz and modern hip-hop ideas.

One of the most amazing things about his output, besides how many times he forged new sounds and new visuals for the entire industry, is how timeless it all is. Pretty much all of his records, especially the best ones, sound timeless and modern, even decades later.

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#283

Post by stinkytaco »

sjclemmy wrote: post #264
stinkytaco wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm afraid I don't buy that. Music follows rules, rules that we all grew up internalizing. There's no "universal music", just music who's rules you are familiar with. Tweak those rules just enough and in the right way and you are innovative (see: The Beatles). Tweak them too much and you are simply avant garde (see: Captain Beefheart). That means that music is without question a social construction. Simply look at ho…

What don't you buy? >Music follows rules, rules that we all grew up internalizing. There's no "universal music", just music who's rules you are familiar with. Tweak those rules just enough and in the right way and you are innovative (see: The Beatles). Tweak them too much and you are simply avant garde (see: Captain Beefheart). I can enjoy music who's rules I am not familiar with. I don't need to know the rules to en…

>I can enjoy music who's rules I am not familiar with. I don't need to know the rules to enjoy tonal and rythmic arrangements.

You don't need to know the rules, but most people will enjoy music whose rules they are familiar with. It's entirely possible I can put on some Mahori music or Trout Mask Replica and you will enjoy it, but I strongly suspect you are in the minority. Most people (myself included) will need time to adapt to music that is radically different than what they are used to.

Which is why I don't think it's fair to call Bowie a "consummate outsider". There is no question he became a beacon for those who were outside of cultural norms, but he achieved that by working in one of the most culturally constricted artistic mediums available.

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#284

Post by SonicSoul »

wanda wrote: post #260
SonicSoul wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is a travesty. In addition to loving his music he also lived in my neighborhood in nyc and I've been naming our internal applications after his songs. Put up a black banner on Ground Control as we speak :( my favorite is the collab he did with Trent Reznor on I'm Afraid of Americans https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPVrFIP0CMs

I wonder if the starman Perl webserver is named after the David Bowie song...

very likely!!! I considered that name too for my next app and i didn't know about the Perl webserver :)

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#285

Post by coldtea »

matwood wrote: post #197
cageface wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been traveling all over the world and all I hear everywhere I go is crap American top 40 pop music. Like I said there's a ton of interesting stuff going on outside their purview but they control the conversation right now.

So your premise is that if it is music that you do not want to hear, it must be the labels pushing it? In no way could that music be on the radio because it is actually popular?

It's mostly popular because of the huge budgets (plus a state of extremely low musical and cultural education of the population).

All other things (e.g. marketing budgets) being equal, much better music could be in the top 10. In the 60s and 70s, before MTV and tightly controlled playlist radios, it was.

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#286

Post by malkia »

eslaught wrote: post #281
malkia wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of Francis Ford Coppola interview in 99u.com - http://99u.com/articles/6973/francis-ford-coppola-on-risk-mo... Quoting from the article: Q: How does an aspiring artist bridge the gap between distribution and commerce? A: We have to be very clever about those things. You have to remember that it’s only a few hundred years, if that much, that artists are working with money. Artists never got money. Arti…

But is that the way we want the world to work, or just something we've resigned ourselves to because we think it's inevitable? I'm pursuing a CS PhD; in my free time, I'm working on a science fiction novel. In some ways, I think a PhD is the perfect vehicle for this since I'm free to "explore" intellectually, as long I still publish in my field. And I make things work: I squirrel away bits of time for writing, and st…

Live performances - theater, concerts, stand-up comedy, sport events, etc. - these would still be paid well (IMHO). It's the things that get copied easily that won't.

Same might happen with software - as more and more software moves "online" you won't be able to "copy-it" - you need to subscribe to a service and use it.

I'm gladly paying for "netflix", as $10 seems not much off our budget, and even it it doesn't have the latest shows I'm satisfied, in case I need to see (say Outlander, or Badlands - there is Vudu, Hulu, Google Play, Amazon, many others..)

But DVD/BluRay copying is gonna get easier and easier, and streaming and trying to save to disk to play later is going to get more cumbersome and cumbersome, to the point no significant amount of people would really bother.

Games fully running behind servers, with the video being streamed, would be impossible to copy - it won't work for Street Fighter, Racing Games and First Person Shooters very well, but there are plenty others for which this would be totally acceptable - heh, especially my favourite genre - Turn Based Games & RPGs :) :) :)

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#287

Post by flashman »

eslaught wrote: post #281
malkia wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of Francis Ford Coppola interview in 99u.com - http://99u.com/articles/6973/francis-ford-coppola-on-risk-mo... Quoting from the article: Q: How does an aspiring artist bridge the gap between distribution and commerce? A: We have to be very clever about those things. You have to remember that it’s only a few hundred years, if that much, that artists are working with money. Artists never got money. Arti…

But is that the way we want the world to work, or just something we've resigned ourselves to because we think it's inevitable? I'm pursuing a CS PhD; in my free time, I'm working on a science fiction novel. In some ways, I think a PhD is the perfect vehicle for this since I'm free to "explore" intellectually, as long I still publish in my field. And I make things work: I squirrel away bits of time for writing, and st…

> Work weeks of 50, 60, or more hours are common at companies in the area, and even more so at startups.

To be a little glib: is that just something you've resigned yourself to because you think it's inevitable?

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#288

Post by Apocryphon »

pseudonymous119 wrote: post #242
darkstar999 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the top comment thread found a way to be very relevant to the interests of HN. It's better to just move on instead of complaining.

A passing comment about the impact of technology on the music industry is enough to make someone's death relevant here? But you're correct; if I consider HN to be heading inexorably in a direction I dislike, I shouldn't waste my time here. Have fun posting and commenting on celebrity news, articles from the The Guardian and The Intercept without me.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/herocomplex/la-et-hc-da...

Re: David Bowie Has Died

#289

Post by theoh »

marchdown wrote: post #252
braythwayt wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t even know why I would want to be on a label in a few years, > because I don’t think it’s going to work by labels and by distribution > systems in the same way. > > --David Bowie, 2002 Something to think about in music that also happens in startups and software: These are social activities. People don’t judge music solely by some kind of independent metric of appeal. They also judge whether the music is popu…

> The vast majority of people wish to belong to the tribe of “The vast majority of people.” This is not obvious to me at all. Would someone please explain?

I think it's a claim that a majority of people want to be part of a single recognisable mainstream. No idea if it's true. It's conceivable that a majority of people would want to each do their own thing, with only a minority choosing to follow the "mainstream" (which would then still be the single largest "tribe")
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