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The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

bloomberg.com

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Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#281

Post by coldtea »

hellofunk wrote: post #261

I don't know what's going to happen with this project of his, but this certainly is an interesting article: >Sitting cross-legged on a dirty, formerly cream-colored couch in his garage, Hotz philosophizes about AI and the advancement of humanity. “Slavery did not end because everyone became moral,” he says. “The reason slavery ended is because we had an industrial revolution that made man’s muscles obsolete. For the…

Regarding slavery that's a fatalistic attitude that's not very good for the advancement of human societies.

The other side of the coin of his "technology outgrew slavery, and thus we got rid of it", is that if tomorrow's technology demands some moral monstrosity, to "work better", we can't but bend over and accept it.

Neither human struggles (from the civil war to MLK and Rosa Parks), nor desires and leadership come into any of this, neither is "working better" (towards what? for what purpose? etc) defined.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#282

Post by analyst74 »

nradov wrote: post #276
itchyouch wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Neural Nets, training the AI to handle emergencies will be all about exposing as many emergency situations as possible. What's better about an AI powered by neural nets is that you could train an AI to go offroading. Get enough data and you've got a model for dealing with a given situation. Google's biggest strides with OCR, Voice recognition, Spam filters and other AI tech early on came from its ability to gath…

The trouble with using neural nets for safety-critical real-time systems is that it's really hard to do the necessary level of validation. You can't accurately predict how the system might react in totally novel or unexpected situations. Which isn't to say that human drivers handle those situations well, but most of the time they don't do something totally bizarre or dangerous.

Humans totally do things that are bizarre or dangerous when in shock, but we've come to accept that as a personal responsibility and a price the society has to bear.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#283

Post by aiyah4la »

aries1980 wrote: post #142
padobson wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: “I live by morals, I don’t live by laws,” Hotz declared in the story. “Laws are something made by assholes.”

Indeed, I would have a word with whoever made the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

This is just nitpicking. He is clearly talking about social laws, not fundamental laws of nature which are clearly different in scope and application.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#284

Post by orky56 »

peckrob wrote: post #10
buro9 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that belief is enough to attempt something that more experienced people would hesitate to start. Naivety is a very good thing at times. I've seen average people achieve incredible things, and not because what they did was incredible... but just because they started work on things that no-one else thought they could complete. Some way into it, when enough progress has been made, people have rushed to give support…

A friend of mine in college had a very good saying about this that I always keep in mind: "There's nothing like succeeding at something you weren't even qualified to attempt."

When you fail at something you're not qualified for, it doesn't feel like failure. You're able to get right back up without even bruising your ego.

Thanks for sharing.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#285

Post by josefresco »

jasallen wrote: post #172
josefresco wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I could upvote this more. A person in their 20's knows nothing, but thinks they've outsmarted the world. It's not until your 30's that you realize how big of an idiot you were/are and how much of the world you actually understand (read: little).

...said a guy in his 30's

Busted. Which is why I didn't say shit about what it's like to be in your 40's because ... I have no idea.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#286

Post by dpacmittal »

buro9 wrote: post #9
thedz wrote: post #4

> “I understand the state-of-the-art papers,” he says. “The math is simple. For the first time in my life, I’m like, ‘I know everything there is to know.’ ” Yep, he's still in his twenties.

But that belief is enough to attempt something that more experienced people would hesitate to start. Naivety is a very good thing at times. I've seen average people achieve incredible things, and not because what they did was incredible... but just because they started work on things that no-one else thought they could complete. Some way into it, when enough progress has been made, people have rushed to give support…

>Naivety is a very good thing at times.

Thats what I think 'foolish' means in "Stay hungry, stay foolish."

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#287

Post by vonmoltke »

darkmighty wrote: post #265
1024core wrote: post #205

Like most hard problems, it's easy to pick off the low-hanging fruit and claim that you have solution. Self-driving cars (in some form or the other, under some loose definition of "self" and "driving") have been around since the 20s. But it still remains a vexing problem. It is quite easy to program a car to stay between 2 cars and follow the car in front. It is quite another to have the same car drive on (a) a road…

TBH, since it's a training based system it's "just" a matter of making sure the training set is large enough, including the situations you mentioned (assuming the training method is robust, generalizes well, etc). I would love someone knowledgeable to give an estimate, but I would guess you need at least a handful (10+?1000+?) of examples of each edge case (involving bicycles, pedestrians, weird road designs, street…

> I would love someone knowledgeable to give an estimate, but I would guess you need at least a handful (10+?1000+?) of examples of each edge case (involving bicycles, pedestrians, weird road designs, street signs, and so on) -- and there are many of them I suspect (at least 100s?).

It depends on what sensors are in use and how the environment affects them. I can't get into much detail unfortunately, but I have seen radar systems that use naive Bayes classifiers for target detection and classification. Those systems required large numbers of examples across a large, multi-dimensional space to work effectively. Target detection and identification is a trivial task compared to what the control system of an autonomous vehicle needs to handle.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#288

Post by dpacmittal »

jaybosamiya wrote: post #44

> The last people with jobs will be AI programmers Geohotz makes a decent point. The way the industrial revolution reduced manual labour, and made thinkers and tinkerers much more valuable, the advent of AI (true AI, mind you, not the tiny stuff that we currently assume) might actually make us obsolete. It is a peaceful and yet terrifying thought.

And why can't true AI be capable enough to program AI? Don't we compile C compilers with C?

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#289

Post by itchyouch »

fudged71 wrote: post #91
bosdev wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's sitting behind the wheel ready to take over, it's not quite the same as making a cup of tea while the car drives itself.

You are, of course, assuming that his system was built properly to maintain manual override. If the vehicle is drive-by-wire, I have no idea if his way of hacking the vehicle would have possibly impeded those systems.

I bet the override is the joystick.

Re: The first person to hack the iPhone is building a self-driving car

#290

Post by politician »

_yosefk wrote: post #134
politician wrote: post #89

If a self-driving car is designed around neural networks, then does that remove the liability dilemma introduced when such a car is involved in an accident? The car panicked and crashed. If we could move the liability to the car itself, then maybe we could just add the car to its own insurance policy, you know, as if it were a dependent, like a teenage driver.

Wow, here's a ton of possibilities! The neural net powered bank computer stole your money and used it to pay the CEO a bonus - move the liability to the computer! The possibilities are endless.

I meant to say that the liability moves to the guardian which is how common insurance schemes work when dependents are involved.

Clearly, you can't meaningfully punish computers. Hah, or banks, for that matter.

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