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Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

nytimes.com

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Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#281

Post by eropple »

dang wrote: post #273
eropple wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not, and you're completely right and I agree with you, but the schtick of ignoring all context that doesn't help out privileged folks is alive and well and highly encouraged on HN. Please try to keep up. =(

That seems both unfair and uncharitable.

I'll agree that that's certainly uncharitable; I could have phrased it better but I don't regret that I didn't. I don't think the tech community, or the people who would attempt to elide the vast power differential between it and the people they displace, deserves charity.

If the marginalized had other tools to fight for themselves, I might very well agree with you that it's unfair. As-is, I'm pretty okay with the notion that the rules of the road change when you have all of the money and all of the power and saying not-nice things about you because you are economically destroying them is simply one's tragic burden to bear.

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#282

Post by lacker »

bduerst wrote: post #162
mattress wrote: post #9

Took a job in Bellevue in April and moved from Philadelphia to Seattle. So far it's a been an interesting experience. I've encountered many people hostile to software engineers in general. A bunch of people immediately ask if I work for Amazon with a hint of disdain after I state my occupation. So it hasn't felt super welcoming so far. I get it, even in some neighborhoods in Philadelphia the same thing is happening.…

The same has been happening with NIMBY's in the bay area for years. I silently follow a private facebook group for a bay-area city (which you need prove you're a resident of to get access) and it's an echo chamber of xenophobia, anti-tech bias, and misguided hate.

Hopefully they appreciate the irony of using a Facebook group to complain about the influence of... companies like Facebook

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#283

Post by paulsutter »

gozo wrote: post #255
paulsutter wrote: post #238

People in Seattle very friendly. They are unhappy about rising rents. There is an eerie consensus that Amazon is to blame, but I haven't heard negative remarks or attitudes towards individuals, just towards Amazon the company and the tech boom in general. I'm really impressed by the city government. Seattle is much more pro growth than San Francisco. There's much more construction. Like SF, people also blame construc…

I don't think it's that simple, especially when talking about things like "luxury" development that changes the city's housing standard.

Imagine you're the loan officer in a bank. A developer comes in and says "I need a loan to build a luxury building. There's no projected demand, but that doesnt matter, becuase luxury buildings /cause/ demand for luxury units".

Seriously, would you loan him the money?

When you view it from the perspective of a property developer or bank, it's pretty clear that projected demand is the /cause/ of building construction and not the other way around.

Amazon moving downtown will create a lot more demand for higher end units. And that demand is the reason higher end units are being constructed. Amazon's plans for their downtown campus (it's huge - all the way over to Denny) /caused/ many residential developers to buy and develop lots downtown.

Think about those 45 minute waits to get on I5 right now. Imagine what it will be like with thousands more Amazon employees in line. All those people waiting in line will be thinking "I need to move downtown, this commute is crazy". That mental image is projected demand. If you picture that, you too will want to build apartments downtown.

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#284

Post by mac01021 »

marssaxman wrote: post #212
Zach_the_Lizard wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your job can imply your socioeconomic status. When it's the first thing you ask, it can come across as deciding whether you're worthwhile or not. Maybe you're not worth the connection because you're a fry cook at McDonalds, but the doctor over there in the corner is. Learning what someone does for a living is, to me anyways, far less important than learning what they like to do, what interests they have, etc. I can b…

I realize that it can be interpreted as rude, I just don't understand why . It's not a question about socioeconomic status, it's a question about "what [you] like to do, what interests [you] have, etc.," as those characteristics are expressed in the activity you've chosen to spend at least half your waking hours on.

A large fraction of people in the "developed" world (perhaps a majority?) work as something like a cashier, for an employer they don't really care about. And they are all aware that most other people they meet are working similar jobs. So they don't ask, because they know they'll probably get a reply like "I stock shelves in a department store", which isn't going to lead anywhere interesting.

Because of this, if someone does ask them what they do, they can be pretty sure right away that that person does something "better" than what they do, and (wrongly or rightly) it can make the situation uncomfortable for them.

Obviously the extent to which this is relevant depends on the demographic of the group in which you're socializing at a particular moment.

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#285

Post by hosh »

eonw wrote: post #208
hosh wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might be part of it too. I worked from home. I lived in Capitol Hill, parked my car in the garage, and I think I drove it maybe once the entire year I lived there. I walked everywhere. Folks were pretty friendly.

would you say your experience with seattleites was limited due to your staying in a small pocket of the city?

Well, that's turn that around: how would not staying in a small pocket of the city expose me other types of Seattleites?

Or better yet: How would typecasting what Seattle folks are like give me insight into myself, or into the city, or improve my life?

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#286

Post by jaziek »

JesperRavn wrote: post #257
wfo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seattle has never been particularly welcoming to newcomers; people there tend to be insular and it can be hard to make friends if you don't already know people (even before the amazon/tech stuff -- plenty of articles about 'the seattle freeze' that predate it). Being from there helps. Not being in tech helps -- there are so many new software engineers meeting one just isn't very interesting. You can hardly blame peop…

>countless new techbros with no respect for Seattle culture who spend 11hrs/day at work and don't have time to develop a personality romping around town give it a real bad reputation. I think you do a great job summarizing the hypocrisy of the left on this issue. According to the left, if a person is financially disadvantaged, they deserve sympathy and support. However if a person is socially disadvantaged[0], they n…

>I don't believe for a second that there are many people working 11 hours a day.

Clearly haven't been following much of the news on Amazon as a workplace recently then.

11 hours a day is totally believable.

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#287

Post by NotABox »

amyjess wrote: post #115
pm90 wrote: post #12

> John Criscitello placed posters in Seattle's Capitol Hill neighborhood proclaiming “Welcome! Rich Kids,” and “Wish you weren’t here.” Its hard not to feel angry at people like this. "Rich Kids" really? These "Kids" spent years developing their engineering skills to get to the point where they are now. Are engineers paid a lot? Of course. But we're certainly not in the same category as those who inherit wealth. Most…

I wish I was a rich kid. I only got to go to college on a scholarship, and I spent the first five years of my career making under $50k. I'm disappointed that some people think working in tech means that you're made of money.

Jesus! The first five years of your career making under $50K? Poor baby!

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#288

Post by amyjess »

civilian wrote: post #232
pazrul wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy is a terrible hypocrite; he creates art bemoaning new people in his neighborhood, while being a recent transplant from New York himself. He's cashing in on the worst kind of 'us vs them' mentality. Some people make excuses that he's only rallying against the stereotypical brogrammer, but I don't think that's true. He's really against anyone being in his neighborhood he didn't personally approve of. He's the…

Agreed. For more info, looks at the video here: http://www.thestranger.com/blogs/slog/2015/08/26/22761976/at... an engineer confronts him in a Q&A session about his bias towards engineers. John just blows up. He accuses techies of being quiet &boring, while at the same time accusing them of being the people who are bashing trans people. He's very inconsistent and is just good at being loud. Oh, and he's also a transp…

As a trans techie (and a lesbian at that), I already can't stand John.

This guy is nuts. Tech is the single most friendly industry for trans people; there's a reason why working in tech is a transfeminine stereotype.

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#289

Post by mikestew »

pazrul wrote: post #24
pm90 wrote: post #12

> John Criscitello placed posters in Seattle's Capitol Hill neighborhood proclaiming “Welcome! Rich Kids,” and “Wish you weren’t here.” Its hard not to feel angry at people like this. "Rich Kids" really? These "Kids" spent years developing their engineering skills to get to the point where they are now. Are engineers paid a lot? Of course. But we're certainly not in the same category as those who inherit wealth. Most…

This guy is a terrible hypocrite; he creates art bemoaning new people in his neighborhood, while being a recent transplant from New York himself. He's cashing in on the worst kind of 'us vs them' mentality. Some people make excuses that he's only rallying against the stereotypical brogrammer, but I don't think that's true. He's really against anyone being in his neighborhood he didn't personally approve of. He's the…

Turn the tables with the old guard being straight white guy blue collar workers, and the newcomers as gay artists, how do John's rants sound now? To me, sounds pretty much like the old white bigot bitching about how much better it was before "those people" moved in. Just as cranky, just as bigoted, just as cringe-worthy when a gay "artist" says it.

Re: Seattle, in Midst of Tech Boom, Tries to Keep Its Soul

#290

Post by dang »

eropple wrote: post #281
dang wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems both unfair and uncharitable.

I'll agree that that's certainly uncharitable; I could have phrased it better but I don't regret that I didn't. I don't think the tech community, or the people who would attempt to elide the vast power differential between it and the people they displace, deserves charity. If the marginalized had other tools to fight for themselves, I might very well agree with you that it's unfair. As-is, I'm pretty okay with the no…

I understand the political argument, but it doesn't help your cause when you prosecute it on HN in way that addresses others disrespectfully. Unfortunately you do that often, and as you know it breaks the rules here.

The HN guidelines don't have an exemption for being right. On the contrary, it's when you're right and the other person is wrong that they apply most.

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