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Web vs. native: let’s concede defeat

quirksmode.org

271–280 of 515 posts

Re: Web vs. native: let’s concede defeat

#271
Doesn't it depend a lot on what you're trying to do? Seems impossible to generalize to me.

The win is huge if you have a web app that works well as a mobile app and does so on the same code base. And that does happen, it just doesn't happen every time -- but I don't think anyone ever said it was supposed to.

Re: Web vs. native: let’s concede defeat

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>business realities make direct, free, downloadable videos impossible at scale And yet it's existed for years using p2p/torrents. So they're more like business fictions

Do you feel you made a point by listing services that exist only by breaking the law to exist as somehow related to business reality? Making your money by trampling the rights of others isn't exactly sustainable. The only way you have a point is to be rampantly intellectually dishonest, or ignorant of reality. Neither option is great, so charitably, it's best to assume you know this stuff and you're just trolling. Al…

I think grandparent just wished to say that "direct, free, downloadable videos" are technologically possible at large scale via p2p. Mentioning copyright is a bit off topic. It's possible to create a paid p2p service for video, and have tons of viewers without spending millions on infrastructure. Hence the bit about "business fictions".

Re: Web vs. native: let’s concede defeat

#276
Remember when the browser was actually a thin client? Now it's got everything but the kitchen sink in it. It's funny how we just assume anything new will be in the browser. Innovation is happening at the native client now. Do one thing, and do it well. Talk to my server.

Re: Web vs. native: let’s concede defeat

#277
post #79
post #42

Remember Flash? Narrow the gap, add a bit of Steve Jobs and Boom! The web Won. Look at a site like YouTube today. All the tooling we've created and all the progress of the open web platform that has made that site happen is incredible. If we've just given up 10 years ago, saying to ourselves that the web should only be for documents, then we would be missing out big time right now. It’s not for every site to try and…

> Look at a site like YouTube today. All the tooling we've created and all the progress of the open web platform that has made that site happen is incredible. What exactly is incredible about YouTube today (apart from it being a huge repository of videos, of course)? That it almost works like a 2000 era video player, only slower and clunkier? The new fangled DRM? That it can bring a decent computer to its knees with…

Discoverability, and elimination of the downloading friction.

YouTube is about as proven as you can get. The fact is that it didn't just edge past 2000-era video players in popularity, it totally trounced them. I think we should try to figure out why that is instead of arguing against YouTube's viability—it's about a decade too late for the latter.

Re: Web vs. native: let’s concede defeat

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Web APIs are in essence becoming an abstraction layer between OS and applications. Terrible ones at that. In native applications you can bypass abstraction layers when you need it. In a browser you are restricted to a almost comically crippled version of what any native APIs provide. Look at the API. It's fairly modern, and yet I can't even turn off premultiplied colors, which I would need for doing even semi-decen…

> yet I can't even turn off premultiplied colors What are those? If you're talking about alpha, that can be bypassed. > server sockets? udp? no dice. The web platform doesn't allow protocols which bypass its security model, sure. But you do have other ways to communicate, WebSocket (over TCP) and WebRTC (over UDP). > But can I grant a website access to some cordoned-off subtree of the filesystem? Not yet, but you do…

> But you do have other ways to communicate, WebSocket (over TCP) and WebRTC (over UDP).

which brings us back to the crippled versions of the native APIs.

Re: Web vs. native: let’s concede defeat

#279
It's all relative. At any moment in time there are going to be "native," fat client, devices that are running more powerful applications than that can be run on a thin client, "web," model. There is always going to be a transition to move those applications to a thin model, for scaleability reasons, and when that happens there is going to be some new software that requires the fat client model again.

Either way, it's about figuring out which model works for the problem you're trying to solve. If you advocate for one, you're missing opportunities in the other.

Re: Web vs. native: let’s concede defeat

#280
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> YouTube on TV is not supported on this device? Is it only for mobile? I didn't see any "mob" or something in the URL. Anyway, with regards to being indistinguishable from native , I guess there is nothing quite like being reminded that you are "native" than an app complaining that you are on the wrong native device. :-)

Works fine on Ubuntu desktop, vivid, [EDIT:] chrome.

Just not on mine. :-) (with Firefox)
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