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Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So make the cockpit a "No-lone zone" - makes sense: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-man_rule#No-lone_zone

See 'caf's comment above: "in the MI185 case it's thought that the pilot killed the co-pilot with a fire axe before bringing down the aircraft."

True. But the "no lone zone" is not a solution, merely a mitigation tactic, and a simple one at that. There's always a way around any obstacle; this would make such (nb extremely rare) events harder to pull.

Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because they're "very" different issues doesn't preclude there being a technical solution that helps solve parts of both problems.

No, no, no, no. There is no technical solution to this non-technical issue. I understand the frustration of "but surely there MUST be a scriptable way out of this," but IMNSHO there isn't (short of strong AI).

This issue of humans in the cockpit? You're saying there's no technical solution to this ....... except AI, which would be a technical solution to this issue.

Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, no, no, no. There is no technical solution to this non-technical issue. I understand the frustration of "but surely there MUST be a scriptable way out of this," but IMNSHO there isn't (short of strong AI).

This issue of humans in the cockpit? You're saying there's no technical solution to this ....... except AI, which would be a technical solution to this issue.

Except that strong AI is not current technology, or even near-future technology. In other words, "hmm, this wouldn't be a problem if only we could do abracadabra and solve it with magic; therefore it's not a problem. We can't do abracadabra, and hence can't solve it this way? La la la, I can't hear you!"

(Not sure I'd call that a technical solution, but let's assume so.)

Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is extremely scary to me that you have to point this out to individuals. How does the reasoning process work for people who think like that? It must go something like "I can share photos with my mom on Facebook, so it must be possible to remotely fly a plane! #technologythatdoesntexistyet"

Its not like that at all. Planes are mostly fly by wire anyway today, so i m not sure why it would be harder to do that. You 're aware that drones fly remotely , right?

The question was not "why is this impossible?" but "why didn't someone remote control the GW flight"? Because, although all the required technological pieces are currently available, remote control is not actually implemented in any commercial aviation aircraft.

As to "why is it not implemented" - because it would create far, far more problems than it would solve, without a measurable benefit.

Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is extremely scary to me that you have to point this out to individuals. How does the reasoning process work for people who think like that? It must go something like "I can share photos with my mom on Facebook, so it must be possible to remotely fly a plane! #technologythatdoesntexistyet"

Its not like that at all. Planes are mostly fly by wire anyway today, so i m not sure why it would be harder to do that. You 're aware that drones fly remotely , right?

You statement is essentially just another way to say "it's just a small matter of programming"

All the technology exists for me to build a drone swarm to patrol my house constantly on the inside and out, deliver me a video stream, and to deter intruders with non-lethal force. That doesn't mean I just need to order the parts, assemble them, and use.

There is no off the shelf remote fly-by-wire for an Airbus A320 or any other passenger jet. Plenty of companies have done it as a one-off thing. This is for either testing UAV systems or using the plane as a crash test vehicle. This usually involves the same team of engineers that equipped the aircraft monitoring every single parameter in real time. The military has actually received criticism for conducting weapon systems 'tests' in this manner.

There is a huge difference between that and commercial operations of such a system. In a commercial environment, you can't have a team of engineers on constant standby. For planes flying for research purposes over unoccupied areas a high risk of total loss of control is completely acceptable. Commercial and military remote control aircraft all have systems that intentionally crash the vehicle if communications is lost and it leaves a designated area. This prevents potential loss of life due to mundane software bugs. You can't ethically build a system that intentionally crashes an airliner full of people as a response to a software bug.

Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This issue of humans in the cockpit? You're saying there's no technical solution to this ....... except AI, which would be a technical solution to this issue.

Except that strong AI is not current technology, or even near-future technology. In other words, "hmm, this wouldn't be a problem if only we could do abracadabra and solve it with magic; therefore it's not a problem. We can't do abracadabra , and hence can't solve it this way? La la la, I can't hear you!" (Not sure I'd call that a technical solution, but let's assume so.)

We could make planes fly themselves today. This is (mostly) how military drones work. On a couple of my tours, we worked with drones that flew themselves almost completely. My best friend in the universe reenlisted just to fly them, and they fly themselves for most of their missions.

Trust me: Planes could fly themselves using today's technology.

Re: Germanwings plane crash: Co-pilot 'wanted to destroy plane'

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that strong AI is not current technology, or even near-future technology. In other words, "hmm, this wouldn't be a problem if only we could do abracadabra and solve it with magic; therefore it's not a problem. We can't do abracadabra , and hence can't solve it this way? La la la, I can't hear you!" (Not sure I'd call that a technical solution, but let's assume so.)

We could make planes fly themselves today. This is (mostly) how military drones work. On a couple of my tours, we worked with drones that flew themselves almost completely. My best friend in the universe reenlisted just to fly them, and they fly themselves for most of their missions. Trust me: Planes could fly themselves using today's technology.

Emphasis on almost. I'm not going to reiterate what's been said here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9289225 , so just the TL;DR version: in case of major trouble, a CFIT of an unoccupied vehicle is a viable safety option, for that 1% that almost works. Try that with an airplane full of people...and you would become a terrorist. Tiny, tiny difference, nothing to worry about.
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