Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass • Hacker News Board

Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass

#271

Post by Drakim » Wed, Dec 10, 2014, 5:53 PM UTC

arthurcolle wrote: post #110

munificent wrote: post #36

One way to look at the razors and blades business model that Keurig is doing here is like so: 1. The consumer purphases product A (here the coffee maker) on the normal consumer market we're all familiar with. 2. Doing so forces the consumer to purchase product B (here K-cups) on a different market. Keurig's goal is to control the second market. By making having all the market power, they can jack up prices to the con…

I don't understand why it's a different market. Do you mean that cartridges are just intrinsically different from the actual machine using the cartridges? This is identical to printers, so would you say the market for ink cartridges is different than the market for printers? On a literal level I suppose this is correct, but I wouldn't consider pens and pen ink to be different markets... Maybe I haven't thought it thr…

It seems to me that they are very much different markets, just like how gasoline and cars aren't the same market. Why would the company that makes electronics also be responsible for making ink? The only reason we even have that idea is because the ink comes in a somewhat electronic package.

Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass

#272

Post by mcguire » Wed, Dec 10, 2014, 5:54 PM UTC

esaym wrote: post #146

snarfy wrote: post #4

Another solution is to not buy Keurig machines.

Agreed. Solution, get a popcorn popper and head over to sweetmaria's: http://www.sweetmarias.com/store/instructions.html

I'm hoping you are talking about a stove-top popper: http://www.whirleypopshop.com/stovetop-poppers.html

Hard to get a consistent roast, but the result is very, very fresh. And you get to enjoy coffee roasting smoke!

Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass

#273

Post by nkurz » Wed, Dec 10, 2014, 5:59 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #191

josteink wrote: post #187

Discussing "licensing" in a thread about coffee. Fuck. This is not what the future was supposed to be about. The future was supposed to bring us infinite possibilities through the means of technology. It was meant to be awesome. It was not meant to be artificially limited through the means of technology which could have been used to make our lives better instead. Where did we go wrong?

"The Calorie Man" (short story by Paulo Bacigalupi) is about licenced crops and agribusiness. It'd be neat to read something similar about domestic DRM. http://www.nightshadebooks.com/Downloads/WindupStories.pdf

Wow! You are right. This is an incredibly apt dystopian view of the future of DRM. Read it.

Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass

#274

Post by keithpeter » Wed, Dec 10, 2014, 6:12 PM UTC

michaelt wrote: post #188

kevan wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming the thermister isn't very close to the heating element you'll be heating air for a while and the heating element might burn out.

On a lot of consumer products there's a resettable thermal fuse built into the heating element. Burning down people's houses is bad for business :)

I'll put my hand up for that one.

Old fashioned non-automatic electric kettles had such a device that handily pushed out the kettle lead thus disconnecting the mains. I was saved from some embarrasment and redectoration by this a third of a century ago.

PS: how could you detect the presence of water? Photocell? Ultrasound? Conductivity between two small contacts 20% of the way up the jug?

Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass

#275

Post by ascendantlogic » Wed, Dec 10, 2014, 6:13 PM UTC

mkremer90 wrote: post #225

They are officially labeling us as "attackers" on seclists now: http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2014/Dec/37

I type "LOL" at a lot of things without actually laughing out loud, but I can't put into words how hysterical this sentence is:

"Step 5: Attacker closes the Keurig, and is able to brew coffee using the non-genuine K-Cup."

THE ATTACKER IS BREWING COFFEE.

Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass

#276

Post by keithpeter » Wed, Dec 10, 2014, 6:14 PM UTC

josteink wrote: post #187

Discussing "licensing" in a thread about coffee. Fuck. This is not what the future was supposed to be about. The future was supposed to bring us infinite possibilities through the means of technology. It was meant to be awesome. It was not meant to be artificially limited through the means of technology which could have been used to make our lives better instead. Where did we go wrong?

My future is not artifically limited through the means of technology. I use my trusty moka pot for decent coffee and instant when I'm on the run (I have no shame).

Seriously: analogue for analogue things folks.

Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass

#277

Post by uxp » Wed, Dec 10, 2014, 6:20 PM UTC

dhm wrote: post #254

josteink wrote: post #187

Discussing "licensing" in a thread about coffee. Fuck. This is not what the future was supposed to be about. The future was supposed to bring us infinite possibilities through the means of technology. It was meant to be awesome. It was not meant to be artificially limited through the means of technology which could have been used to make our lives better instead. Where did we go wrong?

I think it's important to at least acknowledge the desire a "razor/razorblades" device manufacturer has for maintaining the quality of their brand by controlling to some extent the user experiences that are possible with their tool. To me, this seems similar to Sony and Nintendo wanting the right to certify titles that run on their consoles. You can argue about whether removing freedom from the user is worth the trad…

> What Keurig is doing also doesn't prevent another manufacturer from competing with an unencumbered alternative

Not sure if this fits the definition of irony, but Keurig is the company that came up with the unencumbered 1.0 coffee pod standard. The original DRM was the idea that a scoop of ground coffee beans was incompatible with the pod brewer. 2.0 is exactly the same, but with the RFID (I'm assuming. I haven't cared to look into it) "protection". I'd imagine 3.0 will have some kind of boolean logic much like inkjet cartridges have these days that will make the thing complain that the pod has already been used.

Though, I entirely agree with you. This DRM is only present because Keurig wants to protect it's brand. It came up with the pod brewer concept, much like Apple came up with the iPhone and it's app store. Rejecting what it deems to be inferior or competitive to it's goals is it's objective. I'd wish everything was more open and available for interoperability, but it's their product up until I purchase it, so the design is out of my control.

Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass

#278

Post by swdunlop » Wed, Dec 10, 2014, 6:27 PM UTC

keithpeter wrote: post #274

michaelt wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a lot of consumer products there's a resettable thermal fuse built into the heating element. Burning down people's houses is bad for business :)

I'll put my hand up for that one. Old fashioned non-automatic electric kettles had such a device that handily pushed out the kettle lead thus disconnecting the mains. I was saved from some embarrasment and redectoration by this a third of a century ago. PS: how could you detect the presence of water? Photocell? Ultrasound? Conductivity between two small contacts 20% of the way up the jug?

The old way in industrial automation is a float sensor, which is basically a reed switch with some buoyancy on the end. With substances that are corrosive, or where there's a cross contamination concern, you drop down to load cells or a rangefinder, both of which are more expensive and fussy. :)

Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass

#279

Post by merlincorey » Wed, Dec 10, 2014, 6:54 PM UTC

zackmorris wrote: post #256

josteink wrote: post #187

Discussing "licensing" in a thread about coffee. Fuck. This is not what the future was supposed to be about. The future was supposed to bring us infinite possibilities through the means of technology. It was meant to be awesome. It was not meant to be artificially limited through the means of technology which could have been used to make our lives better instead. Where did we go wrong?

A big ah hah moment for me was realizing that money is a representation of inefficiency. So for example, if everyone had a means of growing their own food, generating their own electricity, taking care of their own health, and had unlimited access to information, we wouldn't need to buy things or pay for services. A Mr. Fusion and a replicator would be all we needed. That’s probably the real reason they don’t use mon…

The internet is far from generally free and it is in danger of being shared by all (which of course this community is well aware of) by "fast lanes" and other detrimental laws motivated by middlemen who want money.

Re: Keurig 2.0 DRM Bypass

#280

Post by lepht » Wed, Dec 10, 2014, 7:12 PM UTC

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #132

reginawong wrote: post #130

I almost (not really) want to buy a Keurig machine JUST so I can hack it. Side question: any of you use the term "K-Cups" instead of "Keurig cups"?

K-cup® is their official name. I've never heard anyone use "Keurig cup" before. Is that a thing where you are?

I worked at Green Mountain Coffee Roasters (the owners of Keurig) around the time they were first gaining traction, and remember them briefly being called "Keurig cups" internally before the "K-cup" shorthand caught on.