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Uber Executive Suggests Digging Up Dirt on Journalists

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Re: Uber Executive Suggests Digging Up Dirt on Journalists

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a journalist's job often involves being "rude". some journalists specialize in "rude" reporting. scrutinizing powerful and wealthy people is one of the legitimate roles of a journalist, even when it comes across as "rude". powerful and wealthy people NEED to be scrutinized. when we do, we often discover that they are sociopathic scum like several of the executives at Uber have turned out to be.

There's scrutiny, and then there's repeatedly provoking people until they react. Has it occurred to you that "journalists" can be powerful and wealthy too, and just as sociopathic?

they sure can. we should have journalists who cover other journalists too.

Re: Uber Executive Suggests Digging Up Dirt on Journalists

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you have the love the sequence of events: (1) First their senior business executive (Michael) not only floats his plan at very public venue, but mentions both the budget ($1M) and the number of researches (4) they were thinking of hiring. (2) And then later, in damage control mode, the spokesperson (Hourdajian) tries to clean up by saying they've "never considered" doing opposition research -- despite Michael hav…

And apparently a specific rumor about a specific person they wanted to validate.

As if to drive the point home.

Re: Uber Executive Suggests Digging Up Dirt on Journalists

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the fact that Asparagirl has intentionally interpreted his comments in the most sensational way possible, even going so far as to fabricate threats. "Look into your personal lives, your families" somehow magically became: > threatening to reveal details of the location of their children There's clearly a great deal of stupidity on both sides here.

In the same story that they talk about digging up dirt on reporters' families, Uber revealed details of a different reporter's movements to her, without her consent, and supposedly an impossible thing to do. Is it such a stretch to think that revealing details about your family + revealing details about your movements and location could also = revealing details about the movements and location of your family? Again,…

Regardless, there's a line: press intimidation is unacceptable from any company. Even if the press is biased and has an axe to grind. If their reports are factually untrue and you have evidence to the contrary, write a press release and present it publicly. If this happens to a reporter enough times, they'll be branded unreliable. If their reports are factually correct and the facts therein piss off your customers, well, that was always a risk of doing those things in the first place.

But this type of stuff has happened to Uber enough times that they've developed quite a shady reputation. Uber has lost the benefit of the doubt in many people's eyes because at the very best, they hire shady people to do shady things for them. At the worst, they're stalking private citizens and intimidating them to keep quiet.

Re: Uber Executive Suggests Digging Up Dirt on Journalists

#274
post #13

Buzzfeed stories are normally penalized, but we take the penalty off for major stories. We've done that here. HN tends to frown on media controversy, but since this story seems destined to be above the line in any case, it may as well be the original source. We've demoted the other posts on the same story as duplicates.

To say that this is "media controversy" borders on the absurd: this is entirely inappropriate and indefensible behavior from a top executive at a top company -- and it raises all sorts of legitimate questions about corporate culture and how companies internalize public criticism. You use the passive voice when you say that "it seems destined to be above the line" when in fact it is above the line because many in the…

I'm a bit confused, because this comment mostly seems in vigorous agreement with what we actually did. We restored the story to the front page, where it still is. But let me try to address your concerns as I understand them.

The posts were obvious duplicates, so we did the routine thing and demoted all but one of them. It's true that we didn't merge the threads (which we've recently begun doing in many such cases), but IIRC that's because most of the discussion in the other threads at that point was about why they weren't the Buzzfeed story. Did I get that wrong? If so, it was for the mundane reason that at 1 A.M. I was tired and less meticulous than I try to be.

By "seems destined, etc." I meant that many people here obviously cared about the story. "Media controversy" doesn't strike me as absurd at all, but let's not quarrel over wording; let's seek each other's meaning instead.

FWIW, my personal opinion is that, assuming the story is accurately reported, it's outrageous. But it's our duty to try to factor personal opinions out of moderation decisions.

You seem to be complaining that HN's front page isn't decided by votes alone. It never has been; it has always been a blend of voting and curation. Voting alone would cause HN to be dominated by outrage, gossip, fashion and promotion. That would kill the site. [1]

I dislike that fact as much as any HN user, and probably have more reason to dislike it. But there's no question that it's true. It's so true that it's an interesting question why it's true, given that this is a community of smart people, and I even have a whole theory about it... but I'll spare you.

1. I'm just echoing what tptacek already said in this thread, as well as regurgitating what I've posted dozens of times, but it does seem necessary to regurgitate.

Re: Uber Executive Suggests Digging Up Dirt on Journalists

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Family refers to all members of a family - adult members AND children. So, by threatening someone's family, one implicitly threatens any members of a family who are children (as well as the other members of a family).

When they're talking about "digging up dirt" I don't see how that's going to apply to children. Context is important, and reducing it to 'threat' is misleading. Even though yes it is a subtype of threat.

Really? You don't know anyone who has a special-needs child? The public at large can be very unkind to any who aren't "normal". And that's leaving alone those disturbed individuals who just like to "break things" and are just looking for a target.

Even simply exposing that information is a threat, possibly causing a chilling effect - which is exactly what this Uber exec wants.

Re: Uber Executive Suggests Digging Up Dirt on Journalists

#276
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll respectfully disagree. There's nothing "hypothetical" about it, the guy laid out a budget and a game plan for targeted harassment and intimidation of journalists who dared to write negative press. There were multiple high-profile witnesses, and after it all came to light, he called and then emailed the journalist he threatened, to apologize profusely. This is just one more event in a long history of Uber being a…

Even the author of the story said it was hypothetical. Multiple times.

I can understand your frustration, it certainly is agreed by the buzzfeed author it's hypothetical, but try not to call people morons.

Re: Uber Executive Suggests Digging Up Dirt on Journalists

#277
post #19

Not necessarily a bad idea... Edit FWIW, I personally do not and refuse to use Uber. I think that they are vile. But... I find that too many journalist hide behind 'freedom of the press' when they are axe-grinding. A lot of online tech reporting that I encounter is knee-jerk reaction and factless click-bait. Personal blogs, where you'd expect to find this behaviour, in my experience tend to be far more credible...

[deleted]

Re: Uber Executive Suggests Digging Up Dirt on Journalists

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, he's pissed at a woman journalist accusing his company of sexism and misogyny. He said so. This is already a gendered incident. So sure, it's possible that he'd also talk about destroying a male journalist for the same thing. Heck, it's possible that he has the bodies of a dozen journalists, all male, buried in his back yard. But given that this was already about sexism and misogyny, given Uber's notoriously do…

So all you have to do is accuse people of sexism, and anything they do in reaction to that is automatically sexist? Does that make Arthur Miller a communist?

That is not what I said. If you're really having trouble interpreting what I wrote, perhaps you could ask less loaded question, and one more specifically related to what you're replying to.

Re: Uber Executive Suggests Digging Up Dirt on Journalists

#279
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, he's pissed at a woman journalist accusing his company of sexism and misogyny. He said so. This is already a gendered incident. So sure, it's possible that he'd also talk about destroying a male journalist for the same thing. Heck, it's possible that he has the bodies of a dozen journalists, all male, buried in his back yard. But given that this was already about sexism and misogyny, given Uber's notoriously do…

It's not gendered. A reporter discussed supposed sexism and misogyny at a company. The man is frustrated because it's probably untrue, but we don't have a clear picture because the press has been sensationalizing anything anti-Uber for a while now, and no credible evidence is ever presented. That doesn't make his response or anything about it gendered. It doesn't matter who slanders, it's frustrating when it happens,…

Yes, yes. Uber is really about ethics in tech journalism. Sure.

Re: Uber Executive Suggests Digging Up Dirt on Journalists

#280

Attempting to blackmail the press if they challenge your company's PR? Specifically targeting parents' worst fears by threatening to reveal details of the location of their children? Openly rifling through the location metadata of another female journalist, a customer of theirs, without her consent? Implicitly saying they'll leak customer data of Uber customers who are journalists, the kind of thing that can potentia…

There was no mention of blackmail. There was no mention of revealing the location of children. There was no mention of "rifling" through the location metadata of another female journalist. There was no "implication" about leaking customer data. As far as I can tell, the article amounts to almost exactly what's in the headline: dirt digging. If you want to criticize Uber, it's certainly possible to do it without exagg…

There was no mention of blackmail.

There was no need. It's kind of like when someone says "we know where you live", "watch your back", etc -- the implication is clear.

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