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What I use instead of Google services

gabrielweinberg.com

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Re: What I use instead of Google services

#271

Post by kllrnohj »

pyre wrote: post #127
kllrnohj wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds a lot more like you don't actually understand how advertising works. No, tracking helps to provide you with better services, full stop. Since you use an adblocker, tracking isn't making anyone money at all. Your personal information is worth exactly $0.00 on its own.

> No, tracking helps to provide you with better services, full stop No. Tracking is about allowing advertisers to better target people that they want to advertise to. A side-effect is providing you with 'better' services.

> No. Tracking is about allowing advertisers to better target people that they want to advertise to. A side-effect is providing you with 'better' services.

Those two are NOT exclusive. Targetted advertising only works because you the user find it more useful.

And, no, it's not about better ads, it's about better services. The vast, VAST majority of tracking is never used in targetted ads. Targetted advertising is a very wide net, not hyper-focused.

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#272

Post by eevilspock »

Oletros wrote: post #237
eevilspock wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The REAL issue is accountability. True information lockdown rarely benefits anyone, but openness without accountability is useless and downright dangerous. Google is accountable. The problem is that they are accountable to advertisers, currently to the tune of about $55 billion per year. For consumers to hold Google accountable, they have to fight against their addiction to free web content and services, and start…

Do you want a reason? None of your post give any single proof, just some grandiloquent claims. [Too many people here have a salary dependent on advertising, or an identity dependent on Google fanboyism.] Tinfoil too much?

I provided plenty of facts and logic behind my statements. Did you even follow my link? And how do you refute my claims? You label them "grandiloquent" and say I must be wearing too much tinfoil. I bow deeply to your logic, reason and debate skills.

It's obvious from your comment history that you're a Google fanboy. And an Amazon fanboy. And an Apple hater. Good luck with that.

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#273

Post by pyre »

icantthinkofone wrote: post #262
pyre wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because something isn't currently happening doesn't mean that it won't. You're ignoring the fact that the data isn't transient. It persists into the future, at which point these things can (and probably will ) happen. It's like arguing in favor of a monarchy just because the current ruler is just, competent and benevolent; while ignoring the possibility that the next ruler will be violent and vicious.

Just because something isn't currently happening doesn't mean it will either. You're ignoring the fact that, if Google started abusing your information, people would stream away from them in droves and Google is more than aware of that. Your monarchy analogy doesn't work either because, in a monarchy, you don't have the choice of leaving it other than leaving the country. With Google, and every other internet company…

> Just because something isn't currently happening doesn't mean it will either.

I never said that there was certainty that it would. Only that it is possible. You can't hand-wave away possibilities with "it's not currently happening now."

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#274

Post by gwern »

imgabe wrote: post #118
gwern wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you seriously believe that's how conspiracy cases work? "They were in the same restaurant several times, they must be involved in a criminal conspiracy". I guess every waiter, cook, hostess is also indicted for conspiracy as well, if that's all the evidence they need. I think you need to read up on the 'domestic terrorism' cases in the USA and how NSA investigations actually proceed. One fun instance was Clapper…

And 100% of the evidence was that they met at the same pizza place? There were no other indications? In that case does it flag every single group of high school friends who regularly get pizza after school, or every group of co-workers who hit up the same happy hour a couple times a week? Sadly, that's not outside the realm of possibility, but that information alone is practically worthless in determining if someone…

> And 100% of the evidence was that they met at the same pizza place? There were no other indications?

It was enough for the guys supposedly in charge of protecting us to waste a lot of time staring at graphs. And the 'threat matrix' is full of even more shit than that; I refer you to "Secret without Reason and Costly without Accomplishment: Questioning the National Security Agency’s Metadata Program", Mueller & Stewart 2014 http://politicalscience.osu.edu/faculty/jmueller/NSAshane3.p... for that and other sorry details of 'the war on terror'. Seeing the sausage made is never pretty.

> In that case does it flag every single group of high school friends who regularly get pizza after school, or every group of co-workers who hit up the same happy hour a couple times a week?

No, I'm sure some racial and religious profiling was part of the special top-secret sauce which selected that particular pizza joint...

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#275

Post by hartator »

astrocat wrote: post #75

> "Like most people, I don't like to be tracked. I also am the founder of the search engine that doesn't track you, DuckDuckGo." It pains me to hear intelligent people talk about being "tracked" as something "bad" a priori. While there are certainly plenty of examples of abuse of knowledge, I tend to think of most "tracking" not as "stalking" but as "relationship building." Let me explain... Google is a service provi…

I like that everyone seems to have a way better barista than I have.

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#276

Post by maxerickson »

snogglethorpe wrote: post #194
pavlov wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here by Nokia (the independent company, not the division sold to Microsoft): http://here.com Excellent maps and navigation in my experience.

For a good laugh, look at Tokyo on here.com: http://here.com/35.7115098,139.7902388,13,0,0,normal.day The largest city in the world apparently has about five streets (and note that even the extremely tiny amount that gets shown is actually wrong )! > Here maps certainly has its fans, but it's clear they have a long way to go before they're a real alternative to Google maps...

There is a deeper legacy there. People were complaining about coverage in Japan after Nokia bought Navteq in 2007 (Here was born out of Navteq).

I would expect Navteq had stayed away on some strategic basis and Nokia just kept doing that (I guess Nokia was never a huge brand in Japan).

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#277

Post by riquito »

deepGem wrote: post #266
nickonline wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just going from your examples above: - Safari/iOS will let Apple know you're in a market for a house - Safari will let Apple know you like Ethiopain coffee - Also it will probably allow them to track your searches - Along with Calendar sync and maps Apple knows both where you are currently and where you'll be next While not all of his eggs are in one basket, there's an awful lot of them providing an awful lot of "tra…

You gotta be kidding me here. You don't explicitly have to login to any Apple service when you are using Safari. However, when you are using Chrome - somehow if you login to Gmail you are logged in to the browser. You login to gmail on Safari, you are logged in only to gmail. There's a difference. Sorry I don't mean to be offensive but this aspect shouldn't be overlooked.

> somehow if you login to Gmail you are logged in to the browser

What do you mean? Can you be more explicit?

Re: What I use instead of Google services

#279

Post by seanflyon »

imgabe wrote: post #219
seanflyon wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that that is a ridiculous statement. Of course giving a bad actor more opportunity to act badly increases the risk.

A threat to your safety or your freedom needs to be dealt with directly by eliminating it, not hiding from it. If you're envisioning a bad actor with the resources to compile and analyze a comprehensive log of your location, the simple fact that you use service A instead of service B is not going to do a thing to stop them if they're out to get you. You have far bigger problems on your hands.

What about a potential threat? You are not allowed to "eliminate" those. Maybe just don't give that potential threat more power.
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