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For the Love of Money

nytimes.com

271–280 of 291 posts

Re: For the Love of Money

#271
post #55

TL;DR: He used to use drugs and booze to deal with his insecurities. Then he used money. Now he (apparently) uses the attention that comes from telling everyone how wise and honorable he has become.

Well, you're partly right. I don't think he's using attention in the same way. Sure, it's a self reporting story but let's say that he has mostly handled the internal problems that made him an addict. He even admits he still buys lottey tickets. But in his case he's using his tendencies to help rather than hurt people.

I don't doubt that he's doing some real good; it's the self-aggrandizing style that opens him up to a whole host of issues.

It's a dilemma, for sure, but a guy who's so apt to talk specifics in terms of his income and bonuses doesn't present himself as operating from a place of humility. I know people who went through roughly the same evolution he claims to, but the ones who actually internalized the lesson aren't humble-bragging to the NYT under a byline, but are actually out trying to do good with as little self-aggrandizement as possible.

Like it or not, the way in which he chose to share his message completely undermines it, and it doesn't make his current situation seem too terribly different from his previous ones. Less destructive and more functional, sure, but the dynamic seems largely unchanged.

Re: For the Love of Money

#272
post #16

I was a derivatives trader, and it occurred to me the world would hardly change at all if credit derivatives ceased to exist. Not so nurse practitioners. Is this statement (from the article) true? I'm under the impression that financial innovations throughout history have generally spurred capital investment. Innovations like fractional-reserve lending have made bankers&investors wealthy, but also spurred spending on…

As you can see, it's a hotly-contested issue.

But it's a nice, easy way to make the narrative work.

Re: For the Love of Money

#273

Yay, more villifying "Wall Street" and fueling the "Wall Street vs. Main Street" fire, and suggesting that it's somehow noble or good to not want to be rich. I think everybody should want to be rich. I've tried poverty and in my opinion - it sucks. It sucks big, steaming donkey balls. The desire to make more money, to improve one's "lot in life" and to succeed, this is a Good Thing. Because a few assholes go too far…

Yay, more villifying "Wall Street" and fueling the "Wall Street vs. Main Street" fire, and suggesting that it's somehow noble or good to not want to be rich.

It's somehow noble or good to not want to be rich after you've become so, is the cliché.

Re: For the Love of Money

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use software development to achieve very quantifiable results for companies. If you do, there are a variety of ways to turn that into what you want out of life. One avenue of many is hanging out your shingle as a consultant and charging what your empirical results suggest you can get away with. (I've been beating this drum on HN for a few years. The PG essay on wealth, linked in a sibling comment, is probably…

Thanks Patrick! >>You can use software development to achieve very quantifiable results for companies. Can you direct me to books / resources to understand more in depth what you are talking about here. I have read what you are saying many times but never quite get it. I am struggling to understand why would someone want to pay me % of their profit when they can hire some programmer for $50/hour. Is it about how you…

Like Napoleon mentions in a sibling comment, you're typically not asking for a percent of profit directly, but rather for a weekly rate which is at a substantial premium to $50 an hour. (I've billed at $30k for a week before and pitched successfully at $50k.) A $60k engagement for my typical client wouldn't represent 1% of their profits -- many of them spend more on sandwiches in any given year. (If lunch as a perk costs $3k per employee per year and you have 40 employees... yep.)

Yes, it is extremely important that you're pitching the right sort of clients and that you're proposing to do something which meaningfully impacts their business. My typical client towards the end of my career was a B2B SaaS company with $10 to $50 million in annual sales. Bringing me on was generally not their #1 activity in any given year -- after all, they all have dozens of full-time employees, so they can do lots of things in any given year -- but it was generally for an initiative with a fair amount of strategic importance on, typically, a product which everybody knew would make serious bank if the initiative worked out.

If you had come up to me and said "We're building an app and need an extra Rails programmer" I'd have said "Cool, I keep a list of folks I like. Let me hook you up with someone." rather than attempting to get that business. Like everybody else who is Good With Computers, I occasionally get pitched on "Hey my aunt has a catering business, maybe you should make her a website?" That will never, ever happen. By comparison, if you'd recently experimented with A/B testing a bit on your $X million a year SaaS product and had increased sales by 5%, I would be very, very interested in helping you find the next 5 to 15%.

If you're continuing to find very budget-sensitive clients, how are you prospecting for them? How are you qualifying them? How are you pitching them?

There are many ways to prospect for clients which will get you lots of crappy leads, like e.g. looking for gigs on Craigslist.

Qualifying clients is an art. You don't have to proceed directly to the "prying" questions like explicitly asking what the budget for a project is. Just ask basic getting-to-know-you questions like what their core line of business is and how many employees they have. If their core line of business is retailing Beanie Babies and they have two part-time employees it is unlikely they can afford professional services. If, on the other hand, they have two dozen engineers on staff, they probably can write any check you can currently envision asking for.

What are you selling them on? If you're selling them things that can get delivered by any other freelancer who speaks your language, stop doing that. Start only going after engagements which, assuming project success, meaningfully increase the revenues of their company. Get case studies about how you've done that previously. Make it mandatory that you build in metrics tracking into all your projects, so that your clients know the ROI you are getting (and so you can quote, in broad terms depending on the specifics of your relationship and legal commitments, the sort of ROI your projects have recently generated.)

Re: For the Love of Money

#276
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fine, I'll attempt to parse through your example. "Rather than buying Wigets-R-Us at $100/share, the HFT slips in with a, say, $99.99 offer to the seller, and offers you $100.01." So, 2 possibilities, you don't say, but you are sending a limit order to buy at $100 or a market (or marketable limit, or fill-and-kill) order to buy at $100. Apparently, you seem to be suggesting that there is a seller in the market, presu…

Thanks, that's better than your first pass, though I'm still not buying the story. My social engineering effort worked though. I'll freely admit I find this confusing. And that's with having studied this shit in school and worked in the financial industry (in trading no less). There are a number of methods of getting inside or around the order book, most of which involve breaking rules. But the regulators aren't even…

If there's a buyer for $100.01, selling it for $100.01 isn't "stealing" your ability to buy it for $100.00. That's just a more efficient market.

Re: For the Love of Money

#277
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charlie, as a guy who regularly buys and sells large volumes of stock, is just talking his book. It would be great for him if he could make large transactions without the stock price responding quickly to this new information. But it would be bad for everyone he transacted with. To make this concrete: Say Charlie & Warren wake up one day and decide Company X is undervalued and that they want to by 5% of it. They star…

The large investment banks actually have a code they can append to their orders so they can jump to the top of the order cue. That is the definition of "front running". I'd like to see a 1 cent tax per share per transaction. That'd dramatically limit HFT.

Anyone connected to Direct Edge can send an order flagged as HideNotSlide. Everyone is playing on an even field with respect to that order type.

HideNotSlide does not cause an order to "jump to the top of the order cue[sic]." It preserves your order entry time at a price that is contra the NBBO if there is not an order at Direct Edge at the NBBO (if there is an order at Direct Edge at the NBBO the incoming HideNotSlide order is filled).

I doubt "HFT" would be dramatically limited by a transaction tax. I believe that it would lower trading volume by some amount and widen the bid/ask by some amount. The number of "HFT" firms and their trading habits would look mostly the same though.

Re: For the Love of Money

#278
post #226

My thought after reading this article: "Must be easy to feel good about walking away from making more money, and make a career of talking about it, when you've got that nice cushion of a few million in the bank already."

Very true. [But] At least he did walk away and is doing something good, unlike thousands of other wall streeters who haven't, and who never will - that's something to keep in mind (I'm not defending him though).

Re: For the Love of Money

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HFT front-running isn't about faster price discovery. It's about getting quote data in advance of the consolidated feed and executing trades a few microseconds ahead of the order flow. If I'm buying, the HFT buys ahead of me and resells it to me at a higher price. If I'm selling, the HFT shorts ahead of me and buys from me at a lower price. This isn't about liquidity or efficient markets, it's about gaming the system…

It's simply not possible to "short ahead of you". If I place an order via ETrade an HFT doesn't know about it until it hits their FIX/ITCH/OUCH feed (i.e., after it's already on the order book and possibly after it executed). They cannot jump ahead of you except by offering a better price. I wrote a blog post a while back that explains the mechanics of matching engines, you might find it helpful: http://www.chrisstuc…

chris, you're right in the context of HFT stuff, but of course different matching engines have different rules.

There was a big trade for a while where people had different account types. the CBOT matching engine, for example, had customer orders prioritized over marketmaker or firm, so customers actually COULD jump the line.

Some companies had customer accounts specifically so they could insert orders in higher priority in the queue (the tradeoff is that customers pay for CXLs, but you can just do the math to see when you should be using which account)

to @panarky of the comment, its not on the order of microseconds -- the stuff people used to rip on were flash orders, which are exactly 30 milliseconds.

So @panarky has a bit of a point about knowing the order in advance, but its still damn hard to profit from it. The narrative of just front running trades by having order information in front is just not feasible because of the bid-ask spread (the flash orders are to try to help maintain some semblance of BBO consistency across exchanges)

So as yummyfajitas says, it's not possible to sell ahead (saying "short ahead" in that way exposes you as not really knowing the trade, btw) or buy ahead in a way that necessarily affects price.

Re: For the Love of Money

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But what if you were one of the people selling to Charlie. Before HFTs made the price faster you were the one getting screwed!" The sellers sell at their ask price (or at my bid), it's their decision to sell. If you offer to sell something to me at $10, I haven't "screwed" you just because someone else was willing to pay $11. It absolutely is front running. Moving the price of a stock to your advantage because you k…

Front running is when a broker trades in front of his client. The broker has a fiduciary duty to act in his client's best interests. If I trade ahead of you because I can guess your actions, that's just me kicking your ass. Incidentally, if it's acceptable for Charlie Munger to sell in such a way that others will suffer the price impact of his trade, why is it not acceptable for HFTs to do the same thing? In both cas…

brokers often do not fulfill their fiduciary responsibility.

It's not uncommon at all and I've seen it happen quite openly in many situations. It's tricky business outside of the pure electronic game.

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