Earlier quoted context omitted.
I love it whenever anyone insists something "isn't a big deal" or they don't care about it that much. I will simply say that it is a big deal to me, so if it's not a big deal to them, they might as well do it my way. This works in almost all cases, or the other party has to backtrack and then at least we're negotiating on more transparent terms.
It's all dependent on the worker's rights in the state in which you work. NYS for example, almost always sides on the side of the employee. One thing to really think about is this - take the paperwork with you, and consult a local Labor office for your state. Kindly say, this is something I need to sleep on. I wouldn't dare sign anything under diress and I'm sure any lawyer worth his salt would say the same.
Fired? Speak No Evil
271–280 of 378 posts
Re: Fired? Speak No Evil
#272A friend summed it up like this: Modern employment. Can't speak freely before you have a job (social media vetting), can't speak freely in your own time while you have a job (clauses in your contract), can't speak freely when you no longer have a job.
You can speak as freely as you want - there's just a difference between public and private speech. It's your own choice to publicize your opinions on social media and the internet.
Re: Fired? Speak No Evil
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
IANAL, but while that may be true in general, California (where the author was employed[0]) is an at-will state, and most people reading HN (in fact, most people working at startups in general) are likely to be employed at-will. AFAIK, that means that they are not entitled to any severance unless their initial contract stipulated otherwise. [0] Actually, where the company was based we don't know which employment laws…
> and most people reading HN (in fact, most people working at startups in general) are likely to be employed at-will I'm not so sure about that. While Silicon Valley particularly, and the US in general, has a disproportionate number of high tech startups, you also have some of the weakest workers rights in the world, and while I don't know the exact demographics of HN, I'm not so sure it is that focused around Califo…
Like natural resources, it's called human resources for a reason.
Re: Fired? Speak No Evil
#274When I left the company, he offered me ~$5,000 to sign a non-disparagement agreement.
I refused and said I was free to say whatever I wanted about the company.
They literally held the check out to show me "Here is your carrot, take it".
Re: Fired? Speak No Evil
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
Those reasons are so vague, though. Alright, so "people aren't happy", how should I go about fixing that as an employer? Step 1: find out what they are unhappy about. Hence the exit interview. IMHO, this information should be gathered well before exit, e.g. through regular 1-on-1's, but that's another discussion.
An exit interview allows you to be more candid than in a regular 1-on-1. When you're still an employee you're more worried about saying something that could affect your perception.
Re: Fired? Speak No Evil
#276No disparagement clauses are a lot like non-compete clauses. I would never sign one, but at the same time, I am reluctant to speak poorly of a former employer or to go into direct competition with former colleagues. I want the right to do those things, but I don't actually want to do them. Now of course, they always say, "Yeah, maybe not you, but somebody." To which I say, "That's why you took so long to check my ref…
I'd sign a non-compete clause for enough money in return. Same with a non-disparagement clause, especially if I had nothing bad to say. "Give me 6 weeks severance, instead of 2. Then I'll gladly sign it."
Re: Fired? Speak No Evil
#277To begin with, lawyers tend to see these clauses as essential protections and they are sometimes right. But, right or wrong, they tend to insist upon them, especially in the employment context. This explains their prevalence but, of course, does not necessarily justify their use.
Just to illustrate the cases where they truly are an essential protection, you and a competitor have been fighting for years in court over ugly and untrue things that someone has said about you or your company - non-trivial things that have really hurt you. When it comes time to settle that case, a continuing non-disparagement obligation will be not only helpful but essential to the resolution. The same is true in many other legal fights. When emotions have run high, and parties have antipathy toward one another, it is good practice to help ensure the peace after their fight has been settled to require that they not speak badly of one another and to give a simple mechanism such as binding arbitration to help resolve any follow-on dispute over whether they have done so or not. In such cases, there are excellent reasons to bind parties contractually to restraints on their ability to speak where they would normally be free to do so.
The employment context gets trickier because the antecedent acrimony that characterizes a legal fight may well not be present at the time of a termination and the question then arises: why am I being artificially muzzled? And there is a point to this: why be barred from speaking truthfully about a former situation even if it might be negative? why be at risk of a harassing lawsuit over what it means that something "may" reflect "negatively" about someone? why, in an age of easy communication through social media, be made to feel you cannot even speak about something that may have been a major part of your life, perhaps for many years? What may be seen as a throwaway item by some can be felt to be suffocating by others, and all the more so because it is tacked onto a token severance that gives you very little in exchange.
That said, I would say that the overwhelming number of employers and employees alike see these simply as throwaway items. They figure no one will care about such clauses except the lawyers. And, in most cases, they are probably right. The question then becomes whether one should not sign as a matter of principle or whether to just sign and take the money. Most employees take the money.
Of course, employees can push back if they have leverage. No one is obligated by law to sign a separation agreement. If the terms aren't right, and can be made right, then push back. Insist that the token severance be made more substantial. Or that non-disparagement, if it is to be included at all, be made mutual (it can be quite a head-ache for a large employer to keep control of its many people to ensure that none speak badly of you). Or insist that it be narrowed or clarified so as to reduce or eliminate vagueness about what may or may not be deemed disparaging. Or insist that it be coupled with other considerations that give you benefits apart from your normal final pay, etc. This sort of negotiation can make these clauses a big nuisance from the employer standpoint and may cause the employer simply to drop the clause. However, all of this assumes employee leverage, which doesn't often exist in the routine case, and so, as noted above, most employees simply take the money, accept the restriction, and don't bother to look back.
And so it all depends. For the author of this piece, this was a critical issue. For many others, it is not. Context is critical. And for all but trivial cases, do check with a good lawyer to understand the implications of what you are signing. If the risks are real, there is nothing worse that a harassing lawsuit from a former employer angry with you over some statement you made out of emotion. This is what gives these clauses a bad name and it is also what can make them dangerous. In such cases, be cautious about exposing yourself to such risks in exchange for some token severance. It is probably not worth it.
Re: Fired? Speak No Evil
#278Re: Fired? Speak No Evil
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
>When a parent asks friends "look at this photo, isn't my baby beautiful?" the answer is information-free as everyone will say "yes, that is a cute baby". One of my life goals is to always answer this question honestly.
Please don't. Nothing good can come of it.
Don't want to know what I think? Don't ask me.
Re: Fired? Speak No Evil
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
So what happens when I sign and still rant about the company. Say on my blog. The company is already struggling financially it will cost them to fight back.
> So what happens when I sign and still rant about the company. Then you've broken your word.