iOS 7 • Hacker News Board

Re: iOS 7

#271

Post by sbuk » Thu, Jun 13, 2013, 5:39 PM UTC

nish1500 wrote: post #71

jmduke wrote: post #34

Man, iOS 7 feedback is incredibly frustrating for no reason that actually matters. I feel like I spent the past few years falling in love with flat design, on mobile and on the web -- and I read article after article from historically pro-Apple bloggers/authors explaining that no, flat design was fundamentally a bad move: the strongest metaphor is that of the phone as a tool -- that we needed skeumorphism, we need hi…

The liberal use of fluorescent colours makes it an eyesore. Apply (or Ive) simply does not understand graphic design anymore. It's a disaster of epic proportions.

"The liberal use of fluorescent colours makes it an eyesore. Apply (or Ive) simply does not understand graphic design anymore."

I take it that you are a world authority on graphic design to cast such aspersions. Up there with the likes of Vigelli, Brody and Müller-Brockmann?

"It's a disaster of epic proportions."

No, it really isn't.

Re: iOS 7

#272

Post by chinpokomon » Thu, Jun 13, 2013, 5:40 PM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #110

nish1500 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The liberal use of fluorescent colours makes it an eyesore. Apply (or Ive) simply does not understand graphic design anymore. It's a disaster of epic proportions.

I don't think it's the color, I think it's the backgrounds. With less spacing between elements on the home-screen, putting a background - even a simple gradient - makes it insanely busy. Spots where they show a more elaborate background are cringeworthy. There's a reason WP switched to solid colors. I think the bright elaborate icons would look fine on a jet-black or solid white background.

Going back to Vista, Microsoft initially pushed the translucent window chrome with its Aero theme. The borders were increased to provide larger targets for resizing, and the translucency made the window feel lighter. Even with the blurring that provided a frosted glass feel, it made everything feel busier. Windows 8 backtracked on the looks of Vista and Windows 7 by de-emphasizing the glass. This was done to make desktop apps feel more like Windows 8 apps, to reduce battery use (although they still use a 3d compositing engine, so I don't know that there is actually much of a difference in power use between glass and no glass), and to declutter the experience. iOS 7 doesn't feel de-cluttered to me. It actually seems to borrow most of the things I disliked about Windows Vista and 7 in terms of visual distraction when they use transparency. And then they flatten the UI so that elements like buttons have less visual distinction from static content. For flat UI done better, look at Windows Whistler (Windows XP betas) running the Watercolor theme. http://mirror.stisitelkom.ac.id/files/PC%20Media%20Repositor... While some things have been improved over the past decade, it's interesting to see UI design return to some of the visual feel of this abandoned theme, but with more clutter. I'm not going to say that Watercolor is perfect, but its strength was clarity, something that seems abandoned in most "modern" designs. It appears that I'm not the only one who sees the similarity... http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/046/9/d/windows_phone...

Re: iOS 7

#273

Post by sbuk » Thu, Jun 13, 2013, 5:48 PM UTC

hcarvalhoalves wrote: post #175

jcampbell1 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't possibly determine the legibility of font rendering designed for a 727k pixel display based on a 115k pixel screenshot. Have you tried the current Gmail app? It uses thin fonts, and I don't find it to be a problem.

The thing is fricking white Helvetice Neue on a light blue bubble. You don´t need a retina display to conclude this is unreadable. You just need common sense.

Or just an opinion, which is what you have. It may be right, but until you have used it in anger, you must at least entertain the notion that it could very well be wrong.

Re: iOS 7

#274

Post by nish1500 » Thu, Jun 13, 2013, 5:57 PM UTC

sbuk wrote: post #271

nish1500 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The liberal use of fluorescent colours makes it an eyesore. Apply (or Ive) simply does not understand graphic design anymore. It's a disaster of epic proportions.

"The liberal use of fluorescent colours makes it an eyesore. Apply (or Ive) simply does not understand graphic design anymore." I take it that you are a world authority on graphic design to cast such aspersions. Up there with the likes of Vigelli, Brody and Müller-Brockmann? "It's a disaster of epic proportions." No, it really isn't.

I am the consumer; the bigger authority.

Re: iOS 7

#275

Post by sbuk » Thu, Jun 13, 2013, 6:50 PM UTC

nish1500 wrote: post #274

sbuk wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The liberal use of fluorescent colours makes it an eyesore. Apply (or Ive) simply does not understand graphic design anymore." I take it that you are a world authority on graphic design to cast such aspersions. Up there with the likes of Vigelli, Brody and Müller-Brockmann? "It's a disaster of epic proportions." No, it really isn't.

I am the consumer; the bigger authority.

So no then. In fact you don't actually know what you are talking about at all. Whilst you are more than entitled to your opinions on any given subject, saying something like "Apply[sic] (or Ive) simply does not understand graphic design anymore." isn't at all constructive. It's worse than that actually. Casting an aspersion like that is entirely vapid, and no amount of snide logical twists are going to change that.

Re: iOS 7

#276

Post by nish1500 » Thu, Jun 13, 2013, 6:59 PM UTC

sbuk wrote: post #275

nish1500 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am the consumer; the bigger authority.

So no then. In fact you don't actually know what you are talking about at all. Whilst you are more than entitled to your opinions on any given subject, saying something like "Apply[sic] (or Ive) simply does not understand graphic design anymore." isn't at all constructive. It's worse than that actually. Casting an aspersion like that is entirely vapid, and no amount of snide logical twists are going to change that.

It wasn't meant to be constructive. It was meant to be an opinion.

Re: iOS 7

#277

Post by shock-value » Fri, Jun 14, 2013, 2:10 AM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #234

Vieira wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't care about flatness or skeutransmogrification or whatnot, but the damn thing must WORK. Absolutely. I don't understand how so many people are focusing on the highs and lows of the UI but are ignoring serious UX problems like the one you pointed. Apple says "Nothing we’ve ever created has been designed just to look beautiful. That’s approaching the opportunity from the wrong end." but then they change the pe…

I hate posts like this that lay out some first-order criticism of a design as if the designers did not consider their obvious concerns. It also sounds like you are making judgements based upon screenshots without actually using the software. As far as messages go, it seems that the contrast is appropriate for the bubble at the bottom of the screen. The presumption, I think, is that users will scroll to read previous…

> The presumption, I think, is that users will scroll to read previous messages and the contrast will be fine where they are reading.

That's a wrong-headed and frankly stupid presumption on Apple's part, if true. You're arguing to make the top half of the messages screen unreadable (or at least more difficult to read) in the name of a gimmicky gradient effect?

> If you really think Apple hasn't considered the idea that some photos will have lighter colors I don't know what to tell you.

They haven't in the beta. Unless you set the image to be basically all white (in which the overlaying text turns black) the text remains white. Even on the default "live" teal background the text is hard to read. Hopefully this will change in the release, but considering promo shots show the lock screen as it is now, I'm not hopeful.

> If you want to criticize iOS 7 you can do better than conjuring up things that would only be true if Apple literally had zero design skills.

Wait, so you are saying that if Apple didn't employ "good" designers, his criticisms about the new UI would be valid, but since they do, his criticisms are baseless? Please go ahead and defend that logic, should be good for a laugh.

Re: iOS 7

#278

Post by telcodud » Fri, Jun 14, 2013, 4:42 AM UTC

antimagic wrote: post #260

MsFuntereds wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of all the 'historically pro-Apple bloggers/authors' John Siracusa stands out as an exception: on the [recent episode of the ATP podcast]( http://atp.fm/episodes/17-cant-innovate-anymore ) (starts at 34:55) he gave proper credit to Windows Phone for paving the way — even though he's a confessed Microsoft hater. Matt Gemmell's continual dismissal of the Microsoft designers who created Metro is incredibly disrespec…

I don't think that's what Gemmell has been saying at all. He has been dismissive of the Windows 8 "No Compromises" approach, but Metro, as found on Windows Phone and the Surface (not Surface Pro), he has always seemed rather positive to me. Some examples: "It’s not quite minimalist, though; it’s more like finding yourself living inside an infographic. The presentation is flat and high-contrast, but there’s little tha…

These are the positive examples?! I'll highlight a few snippets from your quotes and tell me what's positive about them.

... living inside an infographic.

but .. little that's familiar

[OT: iOS (and its imitator, Android) -- snide for the sake of it]

WP leaps to the other extreme, ... different .. for the sake of it.

Re: iOS 7

#279

Post by mark_integerdsv » Fri, Jun 14, 2013, 6:28 AM UTC

nish1500 wrote: post #71

jmduke wrote: post #34

Man, iOS 7 feedback is incredibly frustrating for no reason that actually matters. I feel like I spent the past few years falling in love with flat design, on mobile and on the web -- and I read article after article from historically pro-Apple bloggers/authors explaining that no, flat design was fundamentally a bad move: the strongest metaphor is that of the phone as a tool -- that we needed skeumorphism, we need hi…

The liberal use of fluorescent colours makes it an eyesore. Apply (or Ive) simply does not understand graphic design anymore. It's a disaster of epic proportions.

I really have to agree with this. As a 30 something male, I feel like Aple has made something my 12 year old daughter will love but that leaves me very much out in the cold.

I was hoping that some UX issues would be addressed in 7 but alas, it's fonts and colours that seem most important to I've and co.

I'm literally shopping round for an Android after using only iPhones since 2007.

Experia Z seems like the front runner at the moment.

Re: iOS 7

#280

Post by gfodor » Fri, Jun 14, 2013, 6:58 AM UTC

shock-value wrote: post #277

gfodor wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate posts like this that lay out some first-order criticism of a design as if the designers did not consider their obvious concerns. It also sounds like you are making judgements based upon screenshots without actually using the software. As far as messages go, it seems that the contrast is appropriate for the bubble at the bottom of the screen. The presumption, I think, is that users will scroll to read previous…

> The presumption, I think, is that users will scroll to read previous messages and the contrast will be fine where they are reading. That's a wrong-headed and frankly stupid presumption on Apple's part, if true. You're arguing to make the top half of the messages screen unreadable (or at least more difficult to read) in the name of a gimmicky gradient effect? > If you really think Apple hasn't considered the idea th…

My issue is the OP fails to realize design is about tradeoffs, and points out where the new design sucks and where the old design is better, but shows his hand by not considering why the new design may be better. ("arguably looking better", what does this mean? Why does it look better? Perhaps there is a functional purpose to it that he/she is overlooking?)

The new message UI is obviously trying to fade out the older messages since, if you assume the latest message is the most important content by a large margin, older messages are a distraction. I am not going to say this is a wise design, but the blindness the OP has to this dynamic shows they are firmly in the "Apple are idiots" camp, without an attempt to see what is actually in front of them: tradeoffs.

As far as the white on white issue, it's obviously a bug or to-do. Mark this post, I will eat my hat if iOS 7 ships and there are cases where you end up being unable to read text upon user-defined backgrounds like the home screen or lock screen due to some obvious issue like light text on light background.