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U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

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Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#271

Post by geodel »

Aurornis wrote: post #187
joezydeco wrote: post #15

When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, you can expect that they are going to throttle back once they're away from home with way more free time than is normal. From my kid's experience: she was up at 6:30am, in AP classes by 7:30am (three more to go during the day). Classes were done by 3:00, then sports practice…

> When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, My neighborhood and social circle have a number of high school age children, some aiming for high ranking universities. None of them have these grueling 15 hour day schedules you’re describing. I don’t even know of a high school around me that starts at 7:30AM. What unive…

I think magnet school and/or outside school /rec-league sports can easily bring that 15h number.

Overall I think you are right it is indeed bubble and once one is in, it is difficult to see not everyone is doing that.

I have a friend in town both husband, wife work from home and extremely busy with their elementary/middle school kids school/activities that I haven't seen him in years.

Being out of their bubble I only know whats happening but don't get to be tutored in how all these activities are essential. And even rare back out once in a while can be serious digression that affects child's future.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#272

Post by cpburns2009 »

alephnerd wrote: post #185
ungreased0675 wrote: post #175

The University of Michigan has around a 15% acceptance rate. How is it possible that they’re letting in kids who aren’t ready to do college level work? What are they selecting for?

Do you know what it takes to get admitted into Mich tier programs in 2026? Kids will take multiple APs (taking 10+ isn't unheard of, and in a lot of high schools is expected), do multiple extracurriculars (debate, MUN, DECA sports, academic olympiads, theatre), volunteering (NHS, CSF, etc), and even take college classes in high school. On top of that while tests are optional, most students still submit their SAT and…

You can handle all of that in high school, but suddenly can't handle the mental stress of a grade report your first semester of college? Give me a break.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#273

Post by odyssey7 »

mrngld wrote: post #122
odyssey7 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apart from the notion of a moral obligation that may now seem quaint and old-fashioned, you’re talking about their customers who are paying for an education. The responsibility rests partly on the school for solving these challenges. Declaring students “weeds” would tell you all you need to know about the place.

If it's simply pay to win then the value of a degree from an institution falls to absolutely zero. If the product a student is buying is a credential that's supposed to say "I know and can do things, pay me money please" then in order for that credential to fulfill its objective then low performing and mediocre students ("weeds") need to be filtered out. Otherwise, employers and the wider world will quickly realize t…

Paying a teacher to teach ≠ buying a credential.

Failing to teach a student ≠> the student is mediocre.

The student is mediocre ≠ the student is irredeemable and didn’t deserve an education in the first place.

Honestly, it’s wild to me how reluctant people are to accept that teachers have a responsibility to teach their students.

They will charge you $2000 a credit hour to have a teacher teach you — as if the teacher alone is the gatekeeper of an education — and then claim that the teacher is not in any way responsible for the student’s success or failure in being taught.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#275

Post by steele »

ajcp wrote: post #255
alephnerd wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gives students one semester of breathing room that allows them to chill out and concentrate on education for the sake of education. And UMich Ann Arbor is already massive - 8,000 students enroll a year.

But, again, the University of Michigan’s own admissions policies created the need for the students to “chill out”. Is this not treating a symptom of the problem, not the motivator? Also 32,000 undergrads is not “massive” by any measurement[0], especially when accounting for the population of the state of Michigan, much less the broader United States. O. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_public_u...

Michigan admissions create opportunities for students that found success within the challenging conditions. Umich treats the problem by educating future policy makers about those systems. Then occasionally yields to powerful lobby groups and clandestine operations of fascist administration.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#276

Post by mylies43 »

Aurornis wrote: post #187
joezydeco wrote: post #15

When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, you can expect that they are going to throttle back once they're away from home with way more free time than is normal. From my kid's experience: she was up at 6:30am, in AP classes by 7:30am (three more to go during the day). Classes were done by 3:00, then sports practice…

> When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, My neighborhood and social circle have a number of high school age children, some aiming for high ranking universities. None of them have these grueling 15 hour day schedules you’re describing. I don’t even know of a high school around me that starts at 7:30AM. What unive…

For the 7.30 start, its possible its a 0 period class( class before school starts, what a blast these were) and they start earlier then the rest of the student body.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#277

Post by cogman10 »

ungreased0675 wrote: post #268
cogman10 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What harm exactly do you think giving a single semester reprieve is going to cause these students?

Employers thinking a UofM degree is a joke. Hiring practices expanding to include multiple take-home exercises to prove competency. Students not fully learning foundational knowledge they’ll need later because the class is an easy pass.

> Employers thinking a UofM degree is a joke.

I've never cared about where the degree of someone comes from. You really think and employer is going to look at UofM and say "Oh, they gave their students a 1 semester reprieve, obviously they are of lower quality"?

> Hiring practices expanding to include multiple take-home exercises to prove competency.

Why would the policy of UofM change the hiring practices of companies that are not UofM? Where's the connection?

> Students not fully learning foundational knowledge they’ll need later because the class is an easy pass.

This may be a real harm, but ultimately they'll have to learn the foundational knowledge to continue going to UofM. Plenty of students fail to learn foundational knowledge outside of UofM, I know because I had to tutor them.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#278

Post by chasd00 »

hbn wrote: post #213
ungreased0675 wrote: post #175

The University of Michigan has around a 15% acceptance rate. How is it possible that they’re letting in kids who aren’t ready to do college level work? What are they selecting for?

The University I went to has like an 80% acceptance rate so it's not comparable, but I was surprised when I got into 400-level CS classes and there were people who didn't know how to program at all. Our professor assigned us to write a fast fourier transform, and when we had class next week apparently everyone claimed that it was too difficult so he changed the assignment to "find an implementation online and write a…

> Our professor assigned us to write a fast fourier transform, and when we had class next week apparently everyone claimed that it was too difficult so he changed the assignment to "find an implementation online and write about it"

that sounds unbelievable. Not calling you out by any means i'm just shocked! I can comprehend tuning down the difficulty but not to the level of find some code online and write about it.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#279

Post by brendoelfrendo »

colpabar wrote: post #260
halls-940 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you look at real wages vs cost of living and the trend line is down and showing no signs of ever going back up, the question will I be able to afford the resources to survive and have a family, will my kids be able to afford a home, that's the growing uncertainty.

Did you worry about any of those things as a freshman?

Yes? When I started college 16-ish years ago the '08 financial crisis was still fresh in my mind. Many of my peers were deeply concerned about the kinds of jobs and wages they could expect to find after graduation.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#280

Post by rtkwe »

vehemenz wrote: post #265
ungreased0675 wrote: post #175

The University of Michigan has around a 15% acceptance rate. How is it possible that they’re letting in kids who aren’t ready to do college level work? What are they selecting for?

Exactly. They're rejecting 85% of applicants because they're not qualified, but the 15% they admit are, by and large, not qualified either. I'm at one of Michigan's peer institutions, and we have the same problem.

College is a pretty large step up for most people even if they're good at high school and go to a relatively decent one. It's a sudden promotion to full adult in charge of yourself and your success in a way that's hard to prepare for living at home.
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