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Silicon Valley misreads science fiction and undermines democracy

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Re: Silicon Valley misreads science fiction and undermines democracy

#271

Post by lisper »

tremon wrote: post #248
lisper wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you expect me to defend it? It's my opinion. I could give you a long list of things in philosophy that I consider BS, but what good would that do? Do you really doubt that I could provide such a list? The most likely outcome of that exercise would be for you to invoke the no-true-scotsman fallacy and say, "Oh, of course those things are bullshit, but that's not real philosophy." And the fact that I can make…

> a lot of philosophy is actually bullshit > How would you expect me to defend it? It's my opinion One of the first useful things that philosophy teaches you is how to construct a well-rounded argument in support of any position. Following up "philosophy is useless" with "I don't know how to argue my own opinion" demonstrates quite a lack of awareness.

Apparently they don't teach you about straw-man arguments. I didn't say philosophy was useless, I said a lot of philosophy is bullshit. That is not the same thing. A lot of physics nowadays is bullshit (like string theory) but that is not to say that physics is useless.

Re: Silicon Valley misreads science fiction and undermines democracy

#272

Post by lisper »

KPGv2 wrote: post #259
lisper wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people who aren't philosophers said some bullshit Wow, I didn't expect to be vindicated quite so definitively when I predicted: "The most likely outcome of that exercise would be for you to invoke the no-true-scotsman fallacy." > That's no a No True Scotsman fallacy. It absolutely is: > the definition of philosophy, a deep analysis of certain specific topics. I see nothing in that definition about writing in a part…

> You exclude economics and computer science from your list of "certain topics" but you don't say what topics are allowed or on what basis this assessment of admissibility is to be made Oh, so you're not at all engaging in good faith. Thanks for wasting my time. It breaks credulity when you try to argue that economics is a field of philosophy in some attempt to demonstrate I'm engaging in a NTS fallacy.

> when you try to argue that economics is a field of philosophy

You obviously haven't read Murray Rothbard.

Re: Silicon Valley misreads science fiction and undermines democracy

#273

Post by lisper »

jfengel wrote: post #243
lisper wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then by all means please do enlighten me: what is that criterion?

Academic argument, same as any other field. The problem is that you're citing people known for their popularisation, not academic work. None of that is subject to the kind of critique that happens between academics.

Yeah, well, the topic at hand is how Silicon Valley tech bros abuse philosophy. The philosophy they abuse includes a lot of non-academic stuff.

I can cite a lot of bullshit in academic philosophy, but so what? There's a lot of bullshit in academia in general. There is bullshit in physics (string theory). There is bullshit in chemistry (James Tour). There is bullshit in botany (John Sanford). There is bullshit everywhere. If you really want an example from academic philosophy, I'll give you John Searle and the Chinese Room.

Re: Silicon Valley misreads science fiction and undermines democracy

#274

Post by Jtsummers »

bonsai_bar wrote: post #267
Jtsummers wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just a claim, not evidence. If she's said it, it should be easy to link to an interview or an article showing these statements.

It's not true ( https://seattle.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=3880890&GUID=4... ).

I figured that was the case, I just wanted to give them a chance to prove their point instead of just stating over and over again something false. I guess hunterpayne follows the "repeat a lie often enough" approach to truth and facts.

Re: Silicon Valley misreads science fiction and undermines democracy

#275

Post by avmich »

datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #261
avmich wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you think that those successful people - or at least some of them - are also very smart?

What does it mean to be “smart”? I could list a ton of synonyms just to highlight not only the ambiguity of such a claim, but also its relative worthlessness: - Conniving - Autistic - Empathetic - Talented - Quick-witted - Well-read - Scheming - Obsessive - Compulsive - Nerdy - Geeky - Savvy - Wary - Weathered - Wise - Articulate - Quiet - Generous Or, here’s another question, who’s the smartest person in Las Vegas?…

We nevertheless have a concept of smartness and able to judge - imperfectly and subjectively - other people on this perceived dimension.

Take, for example, Elon Musk in SpaceX. Elon knew enough of rocket science to assemble the early team and participate as a self-assigned chief designer. In many cases such actions would qualify a person as a smart one.

Yes, it's hard to objectively measure - very hard perhaps. Yet we can still allow that some of those billionaires are smart at least by some reasonable measures.

My point is that the evaluation of Musk in that particular passage seem to be also subjective, and other people might have other opinions. We don't see good evidence here - and have some kind of counter-evidence elsewhere.

Re: Silicon Valley misreads science fiction and undermines democracy

#276

Post by epgui »

hamper653 wrote: post #250
epgui wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of “shallow philosophy” seems more like “pseudo-philosophy”. I feel like a lot of people just take “thoughts” and label that philosophy.

> I feel like a lot of people just take “thoughts” and label that philosophy. Isn’t that just philosophy?

No.

Re: Silicon Valley misreads science fiction and undermines democracy

#277

Post by mncharity »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #251
mncharity wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nod. A random TIL from Friday, courtesy to qwen.ai: In contrast to USA educational estimation, which emphasizes point estimates, China reportedly emphasizes directional estimation to establish an envelope, upper and lower (strict) bounds - Da Gu and Xiao Gu. I've long though we'd be better off doing incremental bounding, hard and soft, in part because the group discourse dynamics are so much better. "Ok, who can sugg…

This kind of market shopping is common in grant-funded domains. There's a project that you know is a good, but nobody wants to pay for it… but grant body X will pay for component A, which can be slightly modified into component A' which grant body Y will be enthused by, and fund components B, C and D; and component C isn't very useful, but you can make sure to develop a generic architecture that makes implementing co…

Oh my... Braided stacking of a global pedagogic exploration supply chain? Conceptually a repo with long-term ngss and gaokao forks, and a third neutral space (IB schools?) integrating them? Entrepreneurial Sarasvathy-effectuation market co-creation? ... Thought provokingly fruitful - thank you.

Re: Silicon Valley misreads science fiction and undermines democracy

#279

Post by labcomputer »

jimbob45 wrote: post #230
tacomonstrous wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The true morally correct path would have been to take big money out of college sports (not to mention high school sport) entirely. Of course this is now essentially impossible without what I imagine will be extensive rioting countrywide.

How? Charge stadium ticket prices and jerseys at cost?

Sure, why not? The founding charter of every D1 football school claims that it is a non-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of education.

It is still a mystery to me how recruiting "student athletes", with well below-average academic qualifications and superior athletic qualifications, giving them full-ride scholarships (which can be revoked if they fail to perform on the field) and allowing them to take the easiest courses (with dedicated tutoring staff looking over their shoulders), all while paying coaches the highest salaries on campus and using ticket sales to fund ever-bigger stadiums, has anything at all to do with education.

Perhaps the connection to education is that it is meant to be an object lesson (for the rest of the student body) in how to spot corruption and hypocrisy within power structures.

So I see two paths forward: Admit that the whole thing is a sham and just pay the football players their due; or turn legit and take the big money out of college sports by having actual student-athletes (who are students first).

Re: Silicon Valley misreads science fiction and undermines democracy

#280

Post by labcomputer »

xg15 wrote: post #234
wdr1 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the US at least, we've been brainwashed to think that government, by definition, must be bloated, corrupt and inefficient. I don't know that I've been brainwashed, but living most of my life in Chicago & Los Angeles, I've seen a lot of bloat, corruption, & massive inefficiency. Many of friends lost their homes in the Palisades & Altadena fires. If it weren't tragic, it would be laughable the challenges they've f…

Your government clearly is dysfunctional (at least the part that is supposed to serve the ordinary citizens). But look around the world and you can see that it doesn't have to be that way. Also, in the US, there are a lot of forces who see the government straight-up as the enemy and want to have it as dysfunctional as possible. It's where "starve the beast" and DOGE comes from.

Ok, but these two things are incompatible:

1. Your government clearly is dysfunctional

2. You have been brainwashed into thinking that government is bloated, corrupt and inefficient.

If I believe that government is dysfunctional... then surely that belief is informed by the observation that my government is bloated, corrupt and inefficient, not due to brainwashing?

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