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The bottleneck might be the air in the room

blog.mikebowler.ca

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Re: The bottleneck might be the air in the room

#271

Post by fhdkweig »

alienbaby wrote: post #265
gpt5 wrote: post #6

I really wish a Apple or another major OEM would integrate CO2 monitor into watches or smartphones. Suddenly, everybody would be aware of the CO2 level in the room, get alerts, etc. and the problem will just solve itself. There are so many rooms, classrooms, movie theaters and other places with poor ventilation where you just feel dizzy, or fall asleep, not knowing it was just due to lower oxygen levels in your blood…

Is it a tually lower oxygen in the blood that's the problem, or higher co2? I'm not sure if having high co2 automatically implies lower oxygen, I have no idea at all but feels like it may not necessarily be strictly. Linked. Also, are the cognitive issues of low oxygen the same as high co2 or do they produce different effects?

From what I learned from Apollo 13, even with O2 in the air, CO2 can still be poisonous.

Re: The bottleneck might be the air in the room

#273

Post by mft_ »

bluerooibos wrote: post #198
deanc wrote: post #13

I’m not saying this isn’t a legitimate concern but this really seems to have exploded amongst the tech community as the next obsession. I see this pop up on X every few weeks. Is the concern about this really based on actual science? Is there empirical data proving people are less productive or are damaging themselves as a result of heightened CO2 levels? And I don’t mean observational epidemiology studies.

Anecdotal, but I'm convinced it screws up sleep quality. I'd just accepted for the longest time that waking up groggy with a slight headache and tired was the norm until I put a CO2 monitor in my room. With the door closed, it climbed up to 1500ppm in under an hour. I'm certain many people are sleeping in similar conditions without realising and ventilating their rooms properly or leaving the door open.

Higher CO2 vs. free cat access at 4:17am. No win scenario!

Re: The bottleneck might be the air in the room

#274

Post by xyzzy_plugh »

throw0101a wrote: post #217
gpt5 wrote: post #6

I really wish a Apple or another major OEM would integrate CO2 monitor into watches or smartphones. Suddenly, everybody would be aware of the CO2 level in the room, get alerts, etc. and the problem will just solve itself. There are so many rooms, classrooms, movie theaters and other places with poor ventilation where you just feel dizzy, or fall asleep, not knowing it was just due to lower oxygen levels in your blood…

> There are so many rooms, classrooms, movie theaters and other places with poor ventilation where you just feel dizzy, or fall asleep, not knowing it was just due to lower oxygen levels in your blood. Raising awareness is the only real solution. Not wrong, but it is perhaps worth noting that there are already standards for proper ventilation. Generally you're looking at 5–10 cfm/person (2.5-5 L/s), depending on the…

This is correct, but there's still a lot of opportunity to do better.

I've been involved with the build out of several office spaces in new and old buildings. We always took this sort of thing seriously and measured each room independently for a week (many at a time) ensuring we accounted for periods of high occupancy.

This let us tune the HVAC systems to operate more efficiently, ensuring comfortable temperatures and air circulation. Every time I've seen this done there were structural deficiencies that required remediation, some times it meant adjusting duct work.

Most modern office buildings are designed to be a platform for constructing spaces, as spaces usually evolve and change between leases and tenants. They're designed to accommodate this sort of thing.

However I've found that no build out nails this the first time. It's very hard! Often times things look fine but once you get people in the space things change drastically. It requires time and effort to address.

Several of my offices had such good air that I'd prefer being there over pretty much anywhere else -- even outside on poor AQI days.

I've also found that a lot of offices don't do any of this and their air quality is noticeably poor. And lastly I've found that the oldest buildings, including schools -- and I'm talking really old -- have very good air because they are so incredibly leaky. They're usually harder to cool and heat, though.

Re: The bottleneck might be the air in the room

#275

Post by mort96 »

throw0101a wrote: post #229
vertnerd wrote: post #186

As a high school teacher, I first noticed this effect when I started using a CO2 monitor in my classroom as a proxy for air freshness during COVID. The CO2 levels in our supposedly "no problem with the air" classrooms shot up to 2000 ppm within minutes of the start of school and stayed there all day. Kids weren't checked out ONLY because I teach mathematics. They were breathing bad air, too. Worse, when I brought the…

> The good news is that I stopped worrying about making my house "tight" for the sake of energy efficiency. I keep some windows cracked all year and don't worry about how tight the door seals are. The point of having "tight" houses is not (just) about energy efficiency but about air quality as well. The general mantra is build tight, ventilate right . It's why modern building codes mandate air tightness and having ER…

I would not want to live in a city where I have to be careful letting in outside air or going outside because there's too much air pollution...

Re: The bottleneck might be the air in the room

#276

Post by jeromechoo »

doginasuit wrote: post #194

I find it kind of funny that we've been low-key suffocating the higher order function of our brains ever since we started building structures to live in with very little awareness of it. My mom is one of those people who complains that the air is getting stale and opens a window, the hero we needed.

Not that we need more anecdotal evidence but I’ve long felt a certain restlessness and inability to think creatively somewhere in the early afternoon. I work from home with my wife. I’ve eliminated lunch, coffee, and a ton of other variables. The one variable that finally had a distinct effect to my mental state was opening a window.

Re: The bottleneck might be the air in the room

#277

Post by ck2 »

if price is no object get the AirGradient PM2.5+CO2

but Ikea now makes the most affordable PM2.5+CO2 sensor, at $35 a no-brainer

https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/alpstuga-air-quality-sensor-sma...

in there is a very nice/expensive Sensirion SN63C sensor that costs nearly as much as the Ikea itself

https://sensirion.com/company/news/press-releases-and-news/a...

unfortunately Ikea requires Matter network not plain wifi for communication so I've been looking for a cheap Matter hub or DIY SPR

Re: The bottleneck might be the air in the room

#278

Post by amelius »

kingkawn wrote: post #210
amelius wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if a movie theater puts an Apple CO2 meter next to an air inlet? Everybody will think the air is safe.

If that’s the sole source and the application does thoughtful analysis it could determine that there are sections of the room that are better than others, yes

But realistically, using what sensors?

And (maybe less realistically) what if the theater puts 5 Apple sensors inside a sealed CO2-free chamber, spread around the room?

Re: The bottleneck might be the air in the room

#279

Post by jeffybefffy519 »

gpt5 wrote: post #6

I really wish a Apple or another major OEM would integrate CO2 monitor into watches or smartphones. Suddenly, everybody would be aware of the CO2 level in the room, get alerts, etc. and the problem will just solve itself. There are so many rooms, classrooms, movie theaters and other places with poor ventilation where you just feel dizzy, or fall asleep, not knowing it was just due to lower oxygen levels in your blood…

This would probably be the biggest awareness thing tech could do for climate change as well.

Re: The bottleneck might be the air in the room

#280

Post by mppm »

Tossrock wrote: post #12

Submarines operate in the 1000s of PPM CO2 range and the sailors aboard generally do not experience any ill effects. This was tested and no deficits were found even at 15,000 PPM: https://asma.kglmeridian.com/view/journals/amhp/89/6/article...

... which is entirely unsurprising given that exhaled air is about 50.000 ppm CO2 and can vary by several 10.000s depending on depth and rate of breathing. I actually consider the recent wave of findings that CO2 levels as low as 500-1000 ppm measurably affect cognitive performance and well-being to be a great example of how you can prove literally anything with statistics and a sufficiently small sample size.
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