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An entire Herculaneum scroll has been read for the first time

scrollprize.org

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Re: An entire Herculaneum scroll has been read for the first time

#271

Post by conductr »

tialaramex wrote: post #186
codeulike wrote: post #173

Lets reflect on Aristocreon, in about 200 BC, putting their thoughts down on a scroll. They would be aware that the scroll might be kept in a library for some time. Maybe they could have imagined it surviving for 300 years. But they never would have imagined that in 300 years a volcano might destroy the scroll, but in some way preserve it. And then that nearly two thousand years later future humans with machines made…

> Do we have better imaginations? Maybe, humans aren't very different, so it depends whether imagination is informed which seems plausible, or whether it is somehow fixed - modern humans don't have different eyesight than in that period, but almost all of them can read whereas back then almost nobody would have been reading these scrolls. > Can our sci-fi writers come up with something equivalent that is as dizzyingl…

Our capacity for imagination hasn’t changed much I would probably agree as I am not sure how these traits evolve. However I do feel higher IQ and excessive access to information/education with enough time to consume it do actually impact the ability to imagine.

Re: An entire Herculaneum scroll has been read for the first time

#272

Post by Brian_K_White »

egeozcan wrote: post #237
zzyzxd wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already learned to use light and fire to transfer data over long distance. How much difference is there between beacon fire and fiber optic cable? But I think they would be more surprised by how we managed to invent things like social media and AI, which destroy our brain. Ancient societies valued wisdom much more than us and were much more careful when introducing new technologies. It was fascinating for me to…

> How much difference is there between beacon fire and fiber optic cable? I mean, sure, the beacon fire transmits at the blistering rate of roughly one bit per several minutes, assuming nobody fell asleep on watch, the wood was dry, the fog cooperated, and the enemy hadn't already lit a fake beacon to mess with you. Fiber optic, by contrast, limps along at a measly several terabits per second. Not to mention the flex…

The rate is infinit bits, times infinite copies on infinite cables in infinite directions, per several minutes.

Re: An entire Herculaneum scroll has been read for the first time

#273

Post by snickerbockers »

codeulike wrote: post #173

Lets reflect on Aristocreon, in about 200 BC, putting their thoughts down on a scroll. They would be aware that the scroll might be kept in a library for some time. Maybe they could have imagined it surviving for 300 years. But they never would have imagined that in 300 years a volcano might destroy the scroll, but in some way preserve it. And then that nearly two thousand years later future humans with machines made…

Im sure that recovering fragments of text from 2000 year old charred embers would be absolutely incredible to them, but in general the ability to preserve books for thousands of years would not. Before the Gutenberg press, scribes were surprisingly efficient at copying manuscripts by hand. For many of the most significant works of the ancient world the oldest surviving manuscript was written hundreds or even thousands of years after the book was first composed, and oftentimes its not even in the original language.

Re: An entire Herculaneum scroll has been read for the first time

#275

Post by prox »

verditelabs wrote: post #124
CGMthrowaway wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had to pay? I understand the machine cost many hundreds of millions of dollars, but I would have thought for academic researchers doing open science, the beamtime is free (funded by the govt / science trusts).

The beam time is unfortunately not free. I scanned Pherc Paris 4 and Pherc Paris 3 in March and had the final shift on the beam. As I was removing the scroll from the scanning pedestal the next team of scientists were already in the lab getting their samples ready. It's a well oiled machine and they've got customers.

What other type of stuff gets scanned? I can’t imagine a whole industry waiting to x-ray something?

Re: An entire Herculaneum scroll has been read for the first time

#276

Post by prox »

janpaul123 wrote: post #231
janpaul123 wrote: post #224

Ex-project lead here. The most incredible part is buried in a 7 hour long video. Last night they also unwrapped 140 columns of new text in the PHerc. Paris. 4 scroll: https://x.com/JanPaul123/status/2070304769273725278

And a new $1M Vesuvius Challenge Grand Prize will be announced in coming days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96oTlQm0KBw&t=5405s

Amazing stuff!

Re: An entire Herculaneum scroll has been read for the first time

#277

Post by pestatije »

verditelabs wrote: post #232
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many scrolls are intact (worldwide, rather than just France) that might still be recoverable?

IIRC 99% of all of the existing scrolls are still in Italy's possession. I think the breakdown is something like ~350 are mostly in tact, another ~1000 are damaged but still "scroll like", and the remaining hundreds are shattered fragments.

...plus the ones that have not been dug out yet... the site is still partially buried

Re: An entire Herculaneum scroll has been read for the first time

#278

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

verditelabs wrote: post #232
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many scrolls are intact (worldwide, rather than just France) that might still be recoverable?

IIRC 99% of all of the existing scrolls are still in Italy's possession. I think the breakdown is something like ~350 are mostly in tact, another ~1000 are damaged but still "scroll like", and the remaining hundreds are shattered fragments.

My god, but that sounds wonderful.

Re: An entire Herculaneum scroll has been read for the first time

#280

Post by ricardobayes »

codeulike wrote: post #173

Lets reflect on Aristocreon, in about 200 BC, putting their thoughts down on a scroll. They would be aware that the scroll might be kept in a library for some time. Maybe they could have imagined it surviving for 300 years. But they never would have imagined that in 300 years a volcano might destroy the scroll, but in some way preserve it. And then that nearly two thousand years later future humans with machines made…

We came a long way in mere 2000 years but I don't think the growth will be exponential or even linear from now on.
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