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Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

blog.davidedmundson.co.uk

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Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#271

Post by mx7zysuj4xew »

gmueckl wrote: post #169
thesuitonym wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right right, and I'm not saying users shouldn't be able to have a floating window with video (or whatever) in it. I'm saying it shouldn't be Chrome making that window floating and always visible.

That expectation is really an immediate major UX defect. Most really good GUIs rely on tons and tons of subtle behaviors to work right (that is, to assist the user). That means - counterintuitively - that they need a lot of leeway in how they get to control their own windows to appear on the screen. Ultimately, the screen is just an unbroken flat surface and windows are just a software level abstraction that has been…

Finally a sane answer

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#272

Post by bayindirh »

The_President wrote: post #116
pseudalopex wrote: post #103

Plasma/Wayland Known Significant Issues[1] No ability to save and restore positions of native Wayland windows Real-fake-session-restored apps don't remember which virtual desktop their windows were on No full-screen aspect ratio correction "Spare Layouts" feature not implemented "Per-application Keyboard Layout" does not work No way to change the gamma or manually adjust the colors without generating or finding an ap…

The Bluetooth integration needs work - missing features such as "never connect automatically." Default lock screen experience still has a needless delay of 5 seconds when entering a wrong (even blank wrong) password, even on the first attempt. +1 on the gamma controls

Well, seeing how systems are brute-forced and how much speed you can achieve today, these delays are more and more welcome on my end.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#273

Post by account42 »

ahartmetz wrote: post #22
shevy-java wrote: post #7

Good old David - he loves systemd. No wonder he does not like X11. Oldschool KDE devs were better. Today's generation of David or Nate, are just killing KDE off. But no worries, on their blog they'll continue how everything is great. It is so great that they need a donation-widget to keep on pestering people to donate. So now you can pay for them ruining the legacy here.

I don't really like Systemd neither - but Wayland and Systemd are pretty much opposites of each other. Systemd does (too) many things, many of them badly. Wayland does well what it does, but it (still!) does too little. Wayland is adding features and is pretty close to doing "everything necessary". Systemd keeps accreting worse replacements for existing services.

Its similar in that Wayland assumes responsibility for all interactions between programs instead of providing unrestricted interfaces that can be used to implement accessibility, automation and whatever other tools people can think of. It's the systemD way or the highway and it's the wayland way or the highway. But yes the situation is also different in that there is one SystemD but many little incompatible wayland compositors.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#274

Post by mx7zysuj4xew »

gmueckl wrote: post #170
thesuitonym wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If things were designed well, it would be as easy as clicking the pin icon on the window border.

How many buttons do you want on a window frame then? The typical 4 buttons already take a lot of space in the title bar. Not everything that seems like a good idea at first glance is actually good design.

I've fucking had it with you people and your "design"

As many buttons as he thinks he needs, and as a compromise they can be disabled by default and enabled through settings. Instead your ilk will probably remove even those remaining buttons and replace them with some obscure movement command

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#275

Post by mx7zysuj4xew »

Filligree wrote: post #257
Kaliboy wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upgraded to the latest PopOS with Cosmic running on Wayland. Honestly everything just worked, but using it made me so nauseous. There was some latency somewhere, never figured it out. Running Cinnamon on X11 now. I did read some suggestions to improve latency but I have PTSD so it's going to take a while before I try Wayland again.

That’s interesting. I have the opposite effect—X11 always had jank and latency, to the point that it drove me to windows for a couple of years. This is with multiple monitors on Nvidia’s, all of which support vsync. Disabling that did help, but why would I want to? Wayland, currently, is butter smooth.

It's faux smoothness caused by the mandatory vsync. There's several frames of delay in Wayland which apparently you're not sensitive to

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#276

Post by account42 »

okanat wrote: post #152
shevy-java wrote: post #7

Good old David - he loves systemd. No wonder he does not like X11. Oldschool KDE devs were better. Today's generation of David or Nate, are just killing KDE off. But no worries, on their blog they'll continue how everything is great. It is so great that they need a donation-widget to keep on pestering people to donate. So now you can pay for them ruining the legacy here.

David is the definition of old-school KDE developer. Do you know how far back his commits go? I remember his name from my first rodeos with KDE when I was a teenager. He was blogging about KDE in 2009 FFS: https://blog.davidedmundson.co.uk/blog/2009/09/

2009 was already after KDE 4 which many agree is the point when things started going to shit.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#277

Post by account42 »

tuna74 wrote: post #100
shevy-java wrote: post #7

Good old David - he loves systemd. No wonder he does not like X11. Oldschool KDE devs were better. Today's generation of David or Nate, are just killing KDE off. But no worries, on their blog they'll continue how everything is great. It is so great that they need a donation-widget to keep on pestering people to donate. So now you can pay for them ruining the legacy here.

More and more Free SW will depend on Systemd (like next gen flatpak). Make something better or adapt.

No, I will use software that respects me instead of software that makes demands of me.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#278

Post by lionkor »

account42 wrote: post #259
lionkor wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but are we still going on about this? I love a good debate as much as the next guy, but being able to just have one interface (systemd's) for all services and having a more-or-less consistent language really helps. At this point, it's simply a bit too late. I'm sure in the early days it was still a choice, but when you want prepackaged things, you get systemd.

You could also just use one system (Windows) for everything if you wanted. Some of us decided to use Linux because we want things to work how we want and not how some bigshot decides they should work.

Yeah and you can choose to use a 32 bit system, choose to delete half your kernel, and various cool things, none of which need to be SUPPORTED by others. There's nothing that should say that a maintainer must take into consideration every possible choice the user might make, and then support it.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#279

Post by ceayo »

account42 wrote: post #259
lionkor wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but are we still going on about this? I love a good debate as much as the next guy, but being able to just have one interface (systemd's) for all services and having a more-or-less consistent language really helps. At this point, it's simply a bit too late. I'm sure in the early days it was still a choice, but when you want prepackaged things, you get systemd.

You could also just use one system (Windows) for everything if you wanted. Some of us decided to use Linux because we want things to work how we want and not how some bigshot decides they should work.

There is a difference between things being supported and the absence of things not being supported…

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#280

Post by teo_zero »

account42 wrote: post #247
teo_zero wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> doesn't allow windows to stay on top. Are you sure that windows that, without your consent, are allowed to stay on top and grab your input are a good idea? And spawned by Chrome? As if we hadn't already enough ad-ware, click-harvesters, and spoofed dialogs popping up everywhere! I know there is a couple of legitimate uses for this, but the ways it can be abused are vastly more. I think the sensitive default should…

Are you aware that if software misuses the capabilities its given by the system you can choose to stop using that software?

True. But it's often all or nothing: you can't surf the web without the ads.
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