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Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

theguardian.com

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Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#271

Post by greenleafone7 »

khriss wrote: post #30

I can understand why this change happened. Even if American equipment is superior, there is a lot of value to not depending on a supposed 'ally' which * Arbitrarily slapped high tariffs on all goods from Canada while exempting Russia and Belarus. * Threatened to take over the country by force. * Officially suspended the Permanent Joint Board on Defense between US and Canada because of criticism of US foreign policy b…

Vastly inferior and overpriced. From now till delivery the US will blackmail the buyer with delays and increase the agreed upon price at least 3 times. Standard practice.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#272

Post by [deleted] »

adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #250
khriss wrote: post #30

I can understand why this change happened. Even if American equipment is superior, there is a lot of value to not depending on a supposed 'ally' which * Arbitrarily slapped high tariffs on all goods from Canada while exempting Russia and Belarus. * Threatened to take over the country by force. * Officially suspended the Permanent Joint Board on Defense between US and Canada because of criticism of US foreign policy b…

From a very practical PoV, the only military threat to Canada is from the U.S. Even if the U.S. and Canada are enemies, if Canada is being attacked by a country that is not the U.S., then the U.S. will come to its defense because they don’t want another nation with the capability to attack Canada to have a North American presence. So given that the U.S. is the only possible military threat to the U.S., and now that t…

[deleted]

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#273

Post by nxm »

selectodude wrote: post #150
petcat wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Texas has entertained the idea of seceding for 150 years. And they would be a G7 country if they did. But they would have to fight a war to do it. USA already went through this once. The only thing really stopping Alberta from leaving is whether or not BC, Ontario, and Quebec are willing to fight a war to stop it. And that gets a lot more complicated if the US also wants Alberta to go independent....

Texas would be a G7 nation for about a week if they seceded from the US. Being the logistics hub for a country only works if you’re part of that country.

It’s just a logistics hub? Are you ignoring the oil and natural gas that’s supplying the world these days?

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#274

Post by bluegatty »

munk-a wrote: post #43
khriss wrote: post #30

I can understand why this change happened. Even if American equipment is superior, there is a lot of value to not depending on a supposed 'ally' which * Arbitrarily slapped high tariffs on all goods from Canada while exempting Russia and Belarus. * Threatened to take over the country by force. * Officially suspended the Permanent Joint Board on Defense between US and Canada because of criticism of US foreign policy b…

> Even if American equipment is superior I'd mention that whether a piece of tech can beat another one on one is a consideration but a larger concern is how maintainable your fleet is. Canada is specifically moving to grow ties with the EU (and has joined their defense industry network) which really incentivizes having a fleet that is a similar makeup to other European countries. The tariffs and international unpredi…

There are a ton of considerations, starting with 'Doctrine', then tactics, other equipment, integration, other kinds of dependencies. So many things.

Often there are acute, specific needs, aka Canada has to land these all the time in the arctic, you need bigger hangars for the bigger gear, maybe we need 'more units for wider coverage' over large land mass.

Some gear is better v Russians, some gear for China threat.

Etc. Etc.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#275

Post by stickfigure »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #242
throwaway27448 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Genuinely, what makes the US untrustworthy if not Trump? We invaded Korea, and then Vietnam, and a few hundred other interventions that don't seem to be sanctioned by the international community. All because of a hardon for ideology that doesn't seem to actually reflect the interests of the people who live here.

> We invaded Korea what a terrible bad faith arguemnt N Korea invaded the south and the UN voted to create a joint force in there to defend it.

Not only is this true, there are about 50 million people in the south who are incredibly grateful for US involvement. And about 26 million people in the north who are, on average, several inches shorter than the southerners due to the end of US involvement.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#276

Post by detourdog »

adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #250
khriss wrote: post #30

I can understand why this change happened. Even if American equipment is superior, there is a lot of value to not depending on a supposed 'ally' which * Arbitrarily slapped high tariffs on all goods from Canada while exempting Russia and Belarus. * Threatened to take over the country by force. * Officially suspended the Permanent Joint Board on Defense between US and Canada because of criticism of US foreign policy b…

From a very practical PoV, the only military threat to Canada is from the U.S. Even if the U.S. and Canada are enemies, if Canada is being attacked by a country that is not the U.S., then the U.S. will come to its defense because they don’t want another nation with the capability to attack Canada to have a North American presence. So given that the U.S. is the only possible military threat to the U.S., and now that t…

The Gripen is also a very practical design and much simpler to support. Canada can host the data locally as opposed to in the USA. The F-35 is very sophisticated and but maybe to a fault. I'm reminded of how technically superior Germany's vehicles were in WW2. The simplicity and field serviceability the USA vehicles had made a difference in combat.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#277

Post by bluGill »

gchamonlive wrote: post #201
asdff wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel seems trustworthy in the sense that their priorities and aims are abundantly clear to everyone. People are pissed about Israel for Iran right now, but, I mean, there is a reason why they are attacking Iran right now and not Egypt or Turkey. You go about and poke the bear like Iran has done for decades with Israel, you get these outcomes. Egypt tried to poke the bear but that was decades ago and they've since l…

Nobody is buying this narrative of Israel being provoked, because the reaction to the provocation, if there ever was one, is completely disproportional. Israel had settlements in Palestine way before the conflict outbreak, and nothing explains the systematic targeting of civilian infrastructure on Lebanon but for Israel just going supernova, like Germany and Japan back then.

Israel's faults do not mean they were not provoked. Iran has been sending everything they can to anyone who wants to harm Israel.

What Israel has done is a completely irrelevant to what Iran has been doing.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#278

Post by balderdash »

advisedwang wrote: post #179
hnburnsy wrote: post #24

Boeing and Airbus have tremendous backlogs... >As of March 31st, 2026, Airbus reported a commercial aircraft backlog of 9,031 aircraft. Based on the company’s 2026 delivery target of 870 aircraft, this represents approximately 10.4 years of production coverage. >Boeing’s commercial backlog stood at approximately 6,719 aircraft at the end of March. Using Forecast International’s production estimates, Boeing’s backlog…

Do military versions of aircraft use the same production lines, and the same production queue, as commercial aircraft?

As I recall they do - with many being delivered “green” to the integration upfittet but I think the 737’s for the p-8 is actually assembled separately just for the military

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#279

Post by nradov »

advisedwang wrote: post #179
hnburnsy wrote: post #24

Boeing and Airbus have tremendous backlogs... >As of March 31st, 2026, Airbus reported a commercial aircraft backlog of 9,031 aircraft. Based on the company’s 2026 delivery target of 870 aircraft, this represents approximately 10.4 years of production coverage. >Boeing’s commercial backlog stood at approximately 6,719 aircraft at the end of March. Using Forecast International’s production estimates, Boeing’s backlog…

Do military versions of aircraft use the same production lines, and the same production queue, as commercial aircraft?

It's not just the final production line that matters, but the whole supply chain. Boeing frequently has new airframes sitting and waiting for parts from suppliers.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#280

Post by cmrdporcupine »

kashunstva wrote: post #35
petcat wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada has many issues. First and foremost, their entire economy is basically 3 mineral extraction industries stacked on top of each other in a trench coat. They are also (unfortunate?) to share a border with USA and be party to NAFTA. This makes it trivial for educated, professional Canadians to work in the US on a TN visa indefinitely. We know that the doctor and nurse brain-drain from Canada to the US has been ong…

> The reality is that Canadians get very good, tax-payer subsidized educations and then immediately go to the US to work for 10+ years and only return later when they need to start drawing on the Canadian social services for things like healthcare and family care. You write this declaratively as if it describes a typical or representative case. In the 11 years I’ve lived in Canada, this isn’t representative of what I…

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