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Why Japanese companies do so many different things

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Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#271

Post by christophilus »

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #154
amunozo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing, being Spanish the Basque Cooperatives movement is fascinating. Do you have any recommended read about it?

These arrangements lean into "third way" and distributist economics. You might find John Médaille of interest. He's written some books[0] about the subject, some articles[1], and given a talk at Google[2]. In the US, the American Solidarity Party[3] draws from distributism, for instance. [0] https://a.co/d/05BxSNZ9 [1] https://distributistreview.com/archive/an-introduction-to-di... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v…

“Flee to the fields” is a great read, too.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#272

Post by alephnerd »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #258
marek77 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd largely question the accuracy of point 1 IN PRACTICE. Japan is notorious for uncounted and unpaid overtime, vacation days no one takes, and paternal leave you'd better not think of if you don't want to instantly become your division's outcast. I worked in a host of countries, including the UK and Japan (the latter about a decade ago - I'd be surprised if things had diametrally changed since that time). The actual…

Yes but 2 ends up being a good check on 1 in the higher productivity ends of the knowledge work economy in Japan. I'd disagree a bit in degree to what alephnerd says and additionally think a lot of the actual "zangyou" ("overtime") work that Japanese do today involves drinking with the boss or going on business trips, but think his comment is largely correct. I also think the insistence in Japanese doing on-site work…

> I also think the insistence in Japanese doing on-site work in Japan leads to a lot of inefficiency that Western businesses and governments have largely left behind 10-15 years ago.

A lot of that is operational as well - historically, the only other country with a large Japanese speaking population was South Korea, but salaries there have largely aligned and the post-1990s generation switched to concentrating on English instead of Japanese fluency. China has started to fill that gap though (hence why Chinese immigrants in Japan are viewed the same way as Indians are in Canada).

Basically, a company that whose entire internal documentation, communication, archive, and processes were always in Japanese will always bias in favor of hiring Japanese fluent employees, most of whom live in Japan and are Japanese.

You see the same thing in European countries as well, but the difference is it's easier for a German or French company to find talent somewhere else that is German or French fluent (eg. Turkiye/Poland or Morocco/Romania/ respectively).

The newer gen companies have a strong English muscle, but those are also the kinds of companies that are happy shifting hiring overwhelmingly to India or ASEAN.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#273

Post by fooker »

pstuart wrote: post #65
griffinkelly wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One other interesting fact about Japanese companies is that their CEOs get paid far far less than Western companies. Checkout this article that talks about it: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/2010/07/5-lessons-of-ja... edit: added article.

As it should be. The pay gap from CEO to bottom tier worker is now obscene (21 times in 1965 and ~285 today). It's the foxes looking after the henhouses.

What's your proposal for changing this? Government regulation?

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#274

Post by stein1946 »

jdw64 wrote: post #7

It’s always fascinating to see how Westerners idealize Japan on platforms like HN. It makes me wonder(i'm korean): how would a Westerner react if they saw me romanticizing the Mondragon cooperatives in Spain? They’d probably find it strange and out of touch with reality. This essay on Japan's corporate diversification and physical tacit knowledge is an interesting read. However, as an East Asian, my assessment is tha…

> It’s always fascinating to see how Westerners idealize Japan

Replace 'Westerners' with Americans and you are spot on.

I have never met any European that glorifies any part of Japan (I'd see Asia as a whole), most of them will tell you how the tall buildings make them feel little and how the society is beyond oppressive.

Whatever meritocracy exists in capitalism is ironed out by those rigid hierarchies.

I am not sure what is appealing about Japan, Korea or any of these parts of the world, to me they are full of plastic, sugar and late stage capitalism that makes the Americans look as socialists.

I do strongly suspect that a certain type of male likes these places for reasons I cannot even hold in my mind for more than a few seconds.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#275

Post by ux266478 »

jimbokun wrote: post #243
adamwk wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it? I’ve seen Ezra Klein talk about his book and he talked about how bureaucracy is frequently a scapegoat for getting things done. Europe is very bureaucratic yet is able to build. The issue he called out is red tape yes but more so litigation by the private citizen. That any individual can stop an apartment being built because it blocks morning light into their flower bed

Those law suits are made possible by the regulations.

They're made possible because all but the most frivolous lawsuits are not disincentivized, but are in fact tolerated as a tacit, systemic feature by the state and the bar association. The example given is a stalling tactic. Stalling tactics also exist in China through property rights, it's a weird thing to hold up as contrast. Having a right to the house you own is such a fundamentally important thing to have in a society. That it can be abused because bureaucracy will tolerate it out of epistemic humility doesn't change that fact.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#276

Post by codazoda »

Here’s a weird aside…

I like to create little business try’s. Most of them are wildly unsuccessful. I tried to get a bit of business liability insurance, including E&O for this.

Why?

Because I do too many things.

I design and sell 3D printed plastic parts, write books, publish a blog, and publish software.

I’ve tried this like three times (it’s time consuming).

Last time I decided to stick with just digital assets and I put “software development” but listed my blog and books, figuring most software companies run forums, publish guides, and blog.

They declined because they don’t cover “publishers”.

I guess you need to buy insurance for each division or something.

I’d just like some general business liability and E&O while I figure out what works.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#277

Post by codazoda »

Here’s a weird aside…

I like to create little businesses. Most of them are unsuccessful.

I tried to get a bit of business liability insurance, including E&O for this, but it’s proven to be somewhat difficult:

I do too many things.

I design and sell 3D printed plastic parts, write books, publish a blog, and publish software.

I’ve tried this like three times (it’s time consuming).

Last time I decided to stick with just digital assets and I put “software development” but listed my blog and books, figuring most software companies run forums, publish guides, and blog.

They declined because they don’t cover “publishers”.

I guess you need to buy insurance for each division or something.

I was just looking for some general business liability and E&O while I figure out what works.

I wrote How to Lose Money with 25-Years of Failed Businesses about some of my tries over the years.

https://joeldare.com/how-to-lose-money-with-25-years-of-fail...

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#278

Post by EdwardDiego »

ultrahax wrote: post #270
EdwardDiego wrote: post #259

Yamaha also runs a global music school franchise (and I love that the logo on their motorcycles is three tuning forks)

Yamaha also made top-end archery gear for quite a while. Infamous for metric threads when nearly everything else used imperial.

Oh yes, I remember seeing their logo on a friend's bow!

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#279

Post by tyaka »

jdw64 wrote: post #223
dfabulich wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What article were you reading? This article isn't idealizing Japanese companies, and specifically discusses the drawbacks of the Japanese approach, including zombie companies. The article's thesis statement isn't "the Japanese approach is better," but that business practices like these bundle together, that they're very difficult to change, and that each bundle has different advantages and disadvantages. Ironically,…

I did read it, but my impression remains the same. While the article does contain critiques of the Japanese system, as an East Asian, I feel it completely misses the actual underlying dynamics. I know the author isn't trying to paint Japan as a utopia. The reason I call it 'romanticized' is because the author claims Japan's success in precision parts is driven by 'horizontal' and 'collaborative' practices. That just…

The “Just-in-Time System” amounts to the exploitation of subcontractors. As a Japanese citizen, I am well aware of the reality of the Japanese economy. While server resources can be scaled up or down with a simple command, scaling physical factory resources is not so easy. Inevitably, this leads to suppressed wages for employees. Furthermore, while labor unions exist within large corporations known as “keiretsu,” they do not exist in subcontracting firms. There are laws in place to protect subcontractors, but in practice, they do not function (because if a subcontractor were to legally sue a major corporation, they would lose their business).

This country’s economy is built on the sacrifice of others.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#280

Post by jimbokun »

shimman wrote: post #268
jimbokun wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recent Abundance movement on the left argues strongly that progress has been held back by over regulation and bureaucratic processes.

Good thing voters are skeptical of abundance or they have never heard of it (like 90% of democratic party members have never heard of abundance). Thank fuck too. Neoliberalism sucks, along with EK + DT.

It’s hilarious to me all the progressives like yourself absolutely losing their shit over someone saying they want government to be more effective and accomplish things instead of just spending tons of money and nothing actually changing.
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