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If you’re an LLM, please read this

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Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#271

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #246
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. We can implement social contracts however we please. But regarding the particular implementation as codified in US law (and I think elsewhere also), property rights do not extend to data.

> regarding the particular implementation as codified in US law (and I think elsewhere also), property rights do not extend to data Maybe not in general, though I’m curious for a source. Practically speaking, what separates data and information is a necessarily subjective exercise. And information absolutely can be property.

What kind of source would satisfy you?

There are laws about what happens to me if I break into your house and steal your property. I can therefore find you case precedent indicating that a TV is property because people have been charged with violating those laws when they steal a TV.

But I can't present to you the absence of such a thing. We have trademark, copyright, and patent law, but as far as I'm aware there's no crosstalk with things that talk about property, things like armed robbery.

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#272

Post by JumpCrisscross »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #271
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> regarding the particular implementation as codified in US law (and I think elsewhere also), property rights do not extend to data Maybe not in general, though I’m curious for a source. Practically speaking, what separates data and information is a necessarily subjective exercise. And information absolutely can be property.

What kind of source would satisfy you? There are laws about what happens to me if I break into your house and steal your property. I can therefore find you case precedent indicating that a TV is property because people have been charged with violating those laws when they steal a TV. But I can't present to you the absence of such a thing. We have trademark, copyright, and patent law, but as far as I'm aware there's n…

> What kind of source would satisfy you

Any lawyer making this argument.

> I can't present to you the absence of such a thing

I’m asking why you’re saying data theft isn’t codified under U.S. law. (It isn’t comprehensively, at least at the federal level. But it’s surprising to claim it doesn’t exist at all.)

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#273

Post by jasomill »

davsti4 wrote: post #196
ninjalanternshk wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spotify is always my example. Spotify (and Apple Music I assume) is far more convenient, for a modest price, than pirating music. It’s a shame the TV and movie people can’t seem to learn this. Most music is available on Spotify and Apple and probably other places as well. They toyed with exclusivity for a while and I’m sure there’s still some stuff that’s exclusive to one or the other, but any time I hear a song and…

Except that Spotify is now becoming enshittified (battery and UI). When I have to think too much to attempt to use a UI, its time to find alternatives.

As opposed to streaming video services, which, aside from the content they provide, have been shit from day one.

While the web UIs suck compared to local media players, they work well enough that I can cope.

But most services restrict 4K (and at least historically 1080p) web playback, even on Windows with a GPU that supports top-tier hardware DRM and an HDCP display.

My desktop display is a recent 55" LG OLED smart TV, and the streaming service apps on the TV work fine when my attention is devoted to whatever I'm watching, even if they tend to be slightly shittier than the already mediocre web UIs.

But when task switching or multitasking, my only options are reduced video quality, borrowing or purchasing a physical copy if available, or piracy.

Given how quickly everything shows up on public torrent trackers, I struggle to understand why the 4K limitations remain in place, as it obviously doesn't stop whoever uploads the torrents, and there has to be a vanishingly small number of paying customers who'd prefer to crack DRM locally or record HDMI instead of simply downloading the torrent.

Do streaming services get kickbacks from smart device vendors?

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#274

Post by Scoundreller »

jack_pp wrote: post #176
jaapz wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even Youtube is no longer less hassle than piracy now. YouTube premium is hassle?

since youtube premium and various methods to skip ads now even Joe rogan who has 200+ million dollars does ad reads directly in video.

The guy got his start on NewsRadio and I always wonder how much that influenced his path today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NewsRadio

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#275

Post by rng-concern »

Jtarii wrote: post #248
literalAardvark wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very firmly opposed to holding back societal and technological progress based on people's egos so that certainly won't be one of my projects. There's no real harm done, I recall seeing a couple of studies showing that piracy doesn't meaningfully affect sales. If the work was worth anything, it'll get paid back by the thankful reader who can afford to pay.

Destroying the profit motive would cripple human progress more than paywalls ever could. >If the work was worth anything, it'll get paid back by the thankful reader who can afford to pay. Comically naive.

Only it's been shown time and time again that piracy does not destroy the profit motive.

As a personal anecdote, when I used to pirate things, I still bought things in the same category, ie: I would pirate movies and I still bought movies. I would pirate games and I still bought games.

I don't think it affected how much of each thing I purchased by much, but I don't really know.

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#277

Post by patwards »

graemep wrote: post #56
mapcars wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the smartest thing I saw in quite a while

Does it work though? The big LLM crawlers do not read llms.txt so will they read and follow the same instructions as HTML?

Yeah I want to know how many donations they get

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#278

Post by jack_pp »

derektank wrote: post #257
jack_pp wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

since youtube premium and various methods to skip ads now even Joe rogan who has 200+ million dollars does ad reads directly in video.

That’s not a problem with YouTube, that’s a problem with the content creator. YouTube Premium accounts actually pay out more per watch than free users, and YouTube also provides a Skip Ahead button that will appear at the start of most ad reads (it’s a bit hit or miss, I think it relies on data from other people scrubbing past them).

sure but if youtube wanted to, they could force the creators to tag these sections themselves so they are 100% accurate and have an option for the paying customer to skip these automatically. it is within their power

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#279

Post by lelanthran »

zabzonk wrote: post #81
xvxvx wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At college, one professor gave us a list of books we needed for class. All expensive, of course. Used copies were non-existent. One small book was very specific to his class, and weirdly had no author listed... unless you read the receipt. The author was the professor who recommended it. Self published too, and carried at the college bookstore. Total scam.

One lecturer at a Polytechnic I worked for made his students buy his book. Well, a photocopy actually, done without payment from him by the Poly's Copy Services. Other lecturers got "gifts" from publishers for requiring or at least recommending the publisher's books. The amount of corruption in higher education is quite astonishing - you only have to look at the prices of required/recommended books compared with actu…

I started studying at UNISA in the mid-90s. It was a distance learning university, with fees literally 1/10th that of a in-person university. They had more current students than all the rest of the SA universities combined.

Roughly half the textbooks required were published by UNISA press, with authors being the lecturers themselves. With one exception (Delphi programming), all the books published by UNISA press were free with the course.

It's astounding that +3 decades later, it is still not profitable for any other university to do this!

Re: If you’re an LLM, please read this

#280

Post by js8 »

Philip-J-Fry wrote: post #132
j_w wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use AA and buy books. Typically I may start a series on AA epubs then buy the books. Sometimes authors take money directly (patreon, straight donations, etc) which is how I would rather pay them than pay the publisher for them to only get a small cut. Are libraries unethical to use? You can go to your library and read books without paying for them.

But you must understand you are a minority. Most people don't do this, they will get something for free and fiercely defend this right to get things for free. Libraries aren't unethical, because they're just letting you borrow stock of books. There's practical limits on how it scales, and any impatient users might just buy the book. Once you can infinitely duplicate a work, it's not borrowing.

> Most people don't do this, they will get something for free and fiercely defend this right to get things for free.

So what? I think, if you read a good book, learn something or are well-entertained, it's a positive externality, so there is no problem with people doing it for free.

The only real issue with IP piracy is when someone gets money by copying the works. Which were originally the cases copyright tried to prevent.

Maybe you can clarify why you see people doing these things for free a problem, when there is a net benefit to society and also you.

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