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Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

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Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#271

Post by danbrooks »

ezfe wrote: post #47

Just a note about Toyota specifically - There are many blog posts and articles out there alleging that Toyota shares your data with insurance companies. As I own two Toyota's I have read through these carefully and consistently the theme is that the owner was opted into this program without knowing it (likely by the sales person clicking through setup steps to enable every feature). If you are not opted in, I have se…

This aligns with my understanding.

Before 2018-2019, the opt-in process for data sharing was hidden on a website somewhere. Around that time, the form became part of the vehicle purchasing process.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#272

Post by dmitrygr »

addaon wrote: post #186
dmitrygr wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In GM cars (as observed in my last few), the logic is in the head unit: "mic on -> hvac lower", while "hotword detect" uses a different "mic on" method that does not EDIT, previously "does not" above said "doe snot", which explains the reply below

I'm sure it's not great, but deer mucus is a bit of an extreme description.

I never learned to properly touch type, i have my own method, somehow, which uses two fingers of the left hand and three of the right. Spacebar being pressed too soon or too late is, sadly, common :(

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#273

Post by ezfe »

zakisaad wrote: post #259
ezfe wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does produce a local Wi-Fi network but there's no evidence that it supports internet communication. That would be considered a hotspot, which not all carriers even support.

I've never understood how this can be limited in practice: surely as far as the carrier is concerned, all traffic from the mobile device is the same (unless there are identifiers on the traffic coming from hotspotted devices via the mobile device). Here in Australia we've never had any form of hotspot detection/segmentation - if you have a data plan, all data features work (across all carriers). I do recall lots of o…

Your phone voluntarily tags the hotspot data with specific TTL values which carriers use to segment the data. Not all carriers work the same though.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#274

Post by HDBaseT »

drtz wrote: post #268
zakisaad wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never understood how this can be limited in practice: surely as far as the carrier is concerned, all traffic from the mobile device is the same (unless there are identifiers on the traffic coming from hotspotted devices via the mobile device). Here in Australia we've never had any form of hotspot detection/segmentation - if you have a data plan, all data features work (across all carriers). I do recall lots of o…

> surely as far as the carrier is concerned, all traffic from the mobile device is the same Going on a bit of a tangent, but deep packet inspection can identify packets routed using NAT, so if the phone is operating as a typical hotspot it would be identifiable by your carrier. Carriers in the USA used to block / denylist / charge extra for tethering using this exact approach.

Deep Packet Inspection presumably requires a certificate to be installed on my device to allow my connection to be MiTM'd.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#275

Post by ezfe »

dylan604 wrote: post #241
giancarlostoro wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know if they are used to neophytes being unable to handle this and think they are doing a service or if it's a push to get people to connect/sync as much as possible. Likely doing it to remove any frustrations from the brand new buyer being unable to figure out how to set it all up. The last thing you need is someone changing their mind about the car they just bought, because well if setting up the app is a…

The main problem I had with it is the fact it requires an app in the first place. Once they have an app on your phone, they have access to so much data. The app by nature of the functions it performs will need GPS, Bluetooth, and Contacts at a minimum. Once they have that access, there's nothing stopping them from using it for whatever they want. That's just absolutely not something I'm willing to give a car app. Do…

There's no app requirement to use the car, only the app features.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#276

Post by simplyluke »

embedding-shape wrote: post #43
nurple wrote: post #5

> Even after the modem is removed, if you connect your phone to the car via Bluetooth then the car will use your phone as an internet connection and send all the same telemetry data back to Toyota. However, if you use a wired USB connection then it does not do that (see the discussion here and elsewhere), so I exclusively use CarPlay via USB. The problem with this is that both carplay and android auto capture their o…

And once you've gotten rid of Google and Apple, your telecom company tracks you, your CC payments help track you and even cameras in public do. It's hard to not want to throw your hands in the air screaming "whatever" when almost everything you use in public is somehow used to track you either as you move around, or in the future.

> your CC payments help track

Not only that. Them and the point-of-sale vendors (aptly shortened PoS), sell that data. They tend to attempt to do this anonymized. How successful they are in anonymizing that is very much so up for debate.

The websites (and even their retail locations) you buy from send your purchase data to meta and other advertisers directly via APIs so they can better track their marketing conversion rates. You can browse their APIs [1][2] to see what kind of data they like to get, but it tends to be every piece of identification they have on you. Rewards programs make this a much richer data set. You don't need to be a user of Google/Meta for them to build a marketing profile based on this. Google links your physical conversion from ads based on your maps data. Facebook does the same if you give them your location data. Many retailers attempt to use the bluetooth/wifi signals from your phone to track the same data even if you pay in cash [3].

There's no legal framework preventing this outside of the EU and California.

1: https://developers.facebook.com/documentation/ads-commerce/c... 2: https://developers.google.com/google-ads/api/docs/conversion... 3: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/14/opinion/bluet...

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#277

Post by KennyBlanken »

UltraSane wrote: post #194
NewsaHackO wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is similar to what I hear about Tesla's everywhere. While some members of the company leadership can be polarizing, the product itself seems very solid. Have been saving up for my first "good" car since starting my end-career job, really want to get a Tesla, but wish there was a hybrid option due to charger anxiety. Otherwise, would get one already.

[flagged]

and has repeatedly made racist statements

and amplified racially bigoted conspiracy theories

and likes eugenics

and runs companies which have set a record for the highest number of complaints about racial discrimination and bigotry in its workplaces

and bought an entire social media platform solely so he and people with his ideologies could spew bigotry without having their accounts deleted

and, uh, came from a very wealthy white family that lived in one of the most racially oppressive countries on the planet during his youth

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#278

Post by pixl97 »

dotancohen wrote: post #262
phainopepla2 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that's more likely to generate a criminal charge

Then how about paying after ordering and eating a meal?

Depends.

If there was a posted notice that no cash is accepted it's unlikely you'll get a criminal charge, but you can get civilly sued. Most places will just accept the cash then put up a picture saying "If this asshole shows up again, trespass him"

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#279

Post by mmooss »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #247
rkagerer wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any information about precisely what vehicle telemetry they capture and retain? I know the laws are far from perfect, but isn't there some legislation compelling them to disclose what they collect? What specifically would be the most relevant law/regulation? (If it varies by geography, pick any major market, eg. California, that is big enough to impact their engineering design and the content of published ma…

Generally speaking the author seems to wave a bunch of conspiracies around without the evidence to support it, or frankly, much technical knowledge. The author seems unaware that in iOS you can uncheck nearly every single location usage the OS and Apple Apps themselves collect. On iOS not only can you shut off things like traffic reporting while using Maps and cellular/WiFI/Bluetooth data collection...unlike Google,…

> the author seems to wave a bunch of conspiracies around without the evidence to support it

The author provides links at the top to credible reporting on relatively well-known privacy concerns.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#280

Post by parliament32 »

tclancy wrote: post #209
chzblck wrote: post #46

I cannot imagine the paranoia that it would take for me to go through this process.

Step 1. Be very, very single When I was a younger man, audio visual forums used to have an unfortunately sexist, but fairly good conceptual measure they called “wife acceptance factor”. It should really just be partner acceptance factor. Regardless of whom you are with, I hope they would physically intervene before letting you do this. What is the point? All of these posts feel like they miss the forest for the trees…

Counterpoints:

1) My auto insurance is already too expensive. I have zero interest in "oh yeah we had to add to your driver factor because telematics says you exceeded the speed limit 11 times last year :^)". Less tracking is just a bonus.

2) He made no irreversible changes to the vehicle. Just keep the part and plug it back in when you need it for service/inspection or whatever.

3) "Telematics disabled" probably adds to the resale value of the car.

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