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Cuba says it has run out of fuel, blames U.S. embargo

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Re: Cuba says it has run out of fuel, blames U.S. embargo

#271

Post by palmotea »

beepbooptheory wrote: post #263
palmotea wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are quibbling over minor semantics. You all are. Why not just concede it's an embargo not a blockade and move on? > Is the US preventing most oil from reaching Cuba or not? Sometimes questions like that obscure more than they elucidate. If you're debating if a killing is murder or involuntary manslaughter, it doesn't prove your point to ask if the man is dead.

Ok but if it is a murder/involuntary manslaughter-esque distinction, why not just say that? I feel like I made it really easy to do that and wasn't couching it in an accusation or any kind of hyperbole. Just, please, tell it to me straight, I'm a little slow. Is that what we are saying? That everyone is claiming murder, but actually it's more involuntary?

> Ok but if it is a murder/involuntary manslaughter-esque distinction, why not just say that?

It's a distinction between two different things that have some similarities (in this case, a cessation of trade) but important differences.

Re: Cuba says it has run out of fuel, blames U.S. embargo

#272

Post by lostlogin »

Manuel_D wrote: post #129
lostlogin wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet when Russia plays games with false flags and oil exports, American is too scared to act. Even with Russia adding Iranian attacks on US bases, the US remains quiet. It’s a strange world.

The US has in fact seized Russian shadow fleet vessels: https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-seizing-venezuela...

Thanks for this.

Re: Cuba says it has run out of fuel, blames U.S. embargo

#273

Post by M95D »

some_random wrote: post #28
wiradikusuma wrote: post #18

From the perspective of a layman, isn't this bullying? Don't we suppose to have the UN where nations.. unite?

No, refusing to trade with an adversary nation isn't bullying.

What adversary? They're in the stone age.

Re: Cuba says it has run out of fuel, blames U.S. embargo

#274

Post by M95D »

culi wrote: post #254
ceejayoz wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't really understand the point of the embargo. Making sure Florida's Cuban-American community keeps voting Republican. The end result is going to be them being another China-dependent colony. https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/article/as-the-us-starves-it-of...

They've been China dependent for over a decade now. What's different this time is it's an active fuel blockade. US is intercepting ships and explicitly trying to starve people

I'm sure they know it and they probably see it as "last chance" attempt to convert them to capitalism.

Re: Cuba says it has run out of fuel, blames U.S. embargo

#275

Post by M95D »

kyboren wrote: post #174
anigbrowl wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 minutes before this post you were saying it's an embargo, not a blockade. Now it's a 'boycott'. I don't trust people whose arguments constantly shift to meet the rhetorical needs of the moment. You don't like the Cuban government because they're communists, OK fine. I don't like the American policy of starving people for years on end while making high-minded sermons about the moral imperfections of the Cuban govern…

OK, then forget the sermons; how 'bout this? The USA, like all serious countries, seeks to defend and advance its interests. Those interests include the suppression of self-declared enemies like Cuba and Iran, or seeking regime change so they cease being self-declared enemies of the US. The irony of your claim that the US is starving the Cuban people is that in fact, the US could go that far and it would actually end…

> The USA, like all serious countries, seeks to defend and advance its interests. Those interests include the suppression of self-declared enemies like Cuba and Iran, or seeking regime change so they cease being self-declared enemies of the US.

1) I'm not aware of such a declaration coming from Cuba. Please give a link.

2) Are you sure it's USA's interests, not just a few very rich people from USA?

Re: Cuba says it has run out of fuel, blames U.S. embargo

#276

Post by M95D »

WarmWash wrote: post #84

There is a point where you are so weak, and your opponent is strong, that the best outcome for everyone on the whole is for you to just capitulate. Surrender. I don't know if there is something I am missing, but to me, the "bad guy" in a situation like this is the one holding onto power at everyone else's (extreme) expense, throwing their own team into the fire to keep their power in place as long as possible.

Surrender, as in "let USA install it's puppet dictator instead? It didn't work that great for the other countries that allowed it (or were unable to stop it).

Re: Cuba says it has run out of fuel, blames U.S. embargo

#277

Post by beepbooptheory »

Manuel_D wrote: post #270
beepbooptheory wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...so that is a 'no' to the question, right?

No what? The US's embargo and threats to tariff countries that don't match this embargo is blocking most but not all oil bound for Cuba. Russia, for example, continues to trade with Cuba because it's willing to tolerate increase in tariffs (not that Russia is trading much with the US anyway). If this were a blockade then the US would be boarding Russian oil tankers even if they're legally flagged as a Russian vessel.…

Ok! So the answer is in fact 'yes', with once again the rider that it is not something we should call a blockade. That seems fine with me, I think we agree about the important thing here.

Re: Cuba says it has run out of fuel, blames U.S. embargo

#278

Post by ted_bunny »

pasquinelli wrote: post #159
Manuel_D wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The fact that the Cuban authorities s decided that further impoverishing Cuba is worth preserving their single-party communist regime demonstrates that it is indeed a bad government.

after a failed invasion to overthrow the cuban government, we spent a lifetime doing covert operations and using our economic dominance to try to starve cuba to death, but the problem is that cuba has resisted. i wonder if that'll still be your tune if america finds itself on the receiving end of that kind of treatment.

The world can only heal when Americans are humiliated back into living in reality.

Re: Cuba says it has run out of fuel, blames U.S. embargo

#279

Post by ted_bunny »

Manuel_D wrote: post #43
vrganj wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the Cuban authorities that are impoverishing Cuba, that's just victim blaming. It is American imperialism, at least stand by your crimes.

A boycott is a crime? The US has decided not the trade with Cuba, that's it. Cuba is still free to trade with any other country that's willing to trade with them.

This comment shows that you do not understand the basic facts of the situation or are willing to lie about it. No one should engage you until you put in the bare minimum effort to at least know what you're talking about.

Re: Cuba says it has run out of fuel, blames U.S. embargo

#280

Post by jpadkins »

marknutter wrote: post #76
deadbolt wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communism must be absolutely incredible for such a small country to be such a threat to a superpower.

Would you tolerate a fascist country in your back yard?

Your comment implies that my post was my own opinion, where I was merely sharing what the USA position on Cuba has been.

If your definition of fascism includes the merger of corporate power with gov power, then the USA has met that definition for at least 30 years. So yes, I guess I've tolerated it in my backyard, as every American has.

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