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Two millionth electric car registered as market rebounds from tax changes

smmt.co.uk

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Re: Two millionth electric car registered as market rebounds from tax changes

#271

Post by Chaosvex »

KaiserPro wrote: post #193
Chaosvex wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about that. The government waives multiple taxes for the scheme. Off the top of my head, no VAT on the car purchases, no luxury tax on vehicles worth £40k+, no insurance tax, no VED (road tax). The scheme has cost billions in lost revenue and it's the only reason it can exist. The exact accounting is up for debate because it's complex but nonetheless.

> no VAT on the car purchases You can't buy the car, and your limited on miles to 10k, and VAT is now payable, along with insurnace tax. plus you can't lease a landrover. but like I just don't get it. its not like you have a choice to be on PIP. its fucking humiliating to get on PIP, and keep on it.

Yeah, Motability buy the cars. Stop trying to come up with gotchas.

Re: Two millionth electric car registered as market rebounds from tax changes

#272

Post by xnx »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #4
bloak wrote: post #2

I am so confused by the categorisation of cars: BEV, HEV, PHEV and so on. I think the industry insiders who write some of these articles don't realise how hard it is for some of their readers to keep track.

Ignore the "EV" part. B = Battery H = Hybrid PH = Plug-in hybrid (Same as a hybrid but you can charge up the hybrid battery at home)

Don't forget EREV.

Re: Two millionth electric car registered as market rebounds from tax changes

#273

Post by robocat »

jemmyw wrote: post #268
robocat wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe blame consumers rather than manufacturers. And if a government sets up incentives incorrectly, blame the government schemes, not those using such badly designed incentives. The buyers wanted a petrol car. And they choose to fill with petrol. You need your own garage to make plugging in worthwhile (and avoid getting charging cable nicked). Consumers perhaps prefer to avoid the hassle of plugging in? In New Zeala…

> In NZ roads are paid by taxes earmarked for that. It would be better to say that all of the money from road use and petrol taxes are spent on the roads. Those taxes don't actually cover the cost of maintaining the road system. At which point it kind of becomes moot that those taxes are ring-fenced for paying for roads. Since I've lived here people keep repeating that ring-fenced fact like its some kind of special t…

> Those taxes don't actually cover the cost of maintaining the road system

Yes they almost did.

Only a few years ago the National Land Transport Fund (NLTF) was almost entirely self-sustaining, funded by road users.

Recently Crown funding (grants and loans) expanded significantly to ~40% of fund income.

But approximately 30% of government transport spending is being spent on rail (to placate voters I think). Before the Land Transport (Rail) Legislation Act 2020, not much we spent by the NLTF on rail.

Currently ~3% of driven kilometres by car use electricity - so as that number increases, BEV and PHEV vehicles will need to have increased taxation. Presumably something like $700 per annum (currently about how much a person driving a petrol car pays on excise tax).

Ultimately it is almost tautological that road users pay for roads, since government spending comes from taxes, and most people use cars. How things get earmarked is just sophisticated accounting.

Re: Two millionth electric car registered as market rebounds from tax changes

#274

Post by KaiserPro »

Chaosvex wrote: post #271
KaiserPro wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no VAT on the car purchases You can't buy the car, and your limited on miles to 10k, and VAT is now payable, along with insurnace tax. plus you can't lease a landrover. but like I just don't get it. its not like you have a choice to be on PIP. its fucking humiliating to get on PIP, and keep on it.

Yeah, Motability buy the cars. Stop trying to come up with gotchas.

its a lease, I just don't know what to tell you

Re: Two millionth electric car registered as market rebounds from tax changes

#275

Post by physicsguy »

pmg101 wrote: post #231
physicsguy wrote: post #56

The biggest seller of EVs here is the salary sacrifice schemes that give a huge discount to high earners, especially those with kids. Imagine you're on taxable income of £120k and have two chidlren in nursery. Currently you get no help with childcare costs from the government. From my own experience it's ~£6000 subsidy per child. You can currently take out an EV salary sacrifice scheme for ~£600 per month (pre tax),…

Your car isn't 'effectively free', because you could sacrifice all £20k into the pension, paying no tax on it, and get the £12k in childcare subsidies because your income is It still might be desirable, but it isn't free.

If you're at that income level, your employer pension contribution is already likely high and you've likely been stacking it for a while anyway. At some point there is a diminishing return to how much you should put in your pension too; it's tax on exit after all. You only need 2-3 years of maxed out contributions in your late 20s/early 30s to set yourself up very well for the future.

Re: Two millionth electric car registered as market rebounds from tax changes

#276

Post by benhurmarcel »

rsync wrote: post #146

Imagine how much faster electric car adoption would be if incumbent auto makers weren’t using them as dumping grounds for experimental, half-baked, and unsafe design experiments? We never wanted their “electric cars” … we wanted their cars, but electric .

Did you stop looking at cars after 2015 ? Most electric cars look very normal.

Re: Two millionth electric car registered as market rebounds from tax changes

#277

Post by rsynnott »

Freedom2 wrote: post #221
jampa wrote: post #11

This oil crisis was a huge boon for EVs. In Brazil, despite the "hate" most people have against EVs, BYD went from breaking into the top 10 in March to taking the #1 spot in consumer sales for the first time ever.

Curious as to why American EVs never took off. The US is the most advanced country technologically and has the greatest soft power in history to make deals.

> The US is the most advanced country technologically

Certainly not in cars. The US car industry really more or less stopped even _trying_ to compete internationally in the 90s or so. The sole exception was Ford, but they went for an unusual approach where Ford Europe designed its own cars, using parts from Bosch etc. Ford Europe is now also all but dead in the consumer space, too. To a large extent the US car industry survives due to protectionism (notably this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax).

Re: Two millionth electric car registered as market rebounds from tax changes

#278

Post by rsynnott »

rsync wrote: post #146

Imagine how much faster electric car adoption would be if incumbent auto makers weren’t using them as dumping grounds for experimental, half-baked, and unsafe design experiments? We never wanted their “electric cars” … we wanted their cars, but electric .

VW tried that, particularly with the eGolf (which was pretty much indistinguishable from a normal Golf); it didn't really work. A lot of people thought VW didn't even _make_ electric cars until the weirder-looking id3 and 4 came out years later.

Re: Two millionth electric car registered as market rebounds from tax changes

#279

Post by physicsguy »

vkou wrote: post #169
traceroute66 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obviously if you don't need a new car, it's a really bad financial decision to buy one. I dunno .... At least two EV manufacturers offer a 7 year warranty on new cars on all parts INCLUDING the battery.

Replacing whatever is broken in your 10-year old car will on the net cost less than the amortized cost of buying a new one.

I'm no proponent of PCP or leasing but you have to admit there is a hassle factor invovled once they hit a certain age + mileage.

Re: Two millionth electric car registered as market rebounds from tax changes

#280

Post by philipallstar »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #198
philipallstar wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By contrast, a combined cycle power plant gets over 60%. Over 25% of this is then lost in transmission and distribution[0] (down to 45%). Then 10-25% of that lost in charging the car[1] (down to 40%). Finally, the car itself loses about 10-15% of that[2] (down to 35%). [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/322834/transmission-dist... [1] https://go-e.com/en/magazine/ev-charging-losses [2] https://evreporter.com/u…

That first chart is in absolute units, not percentage. 25TWh annual distribution losses off of ~300TWh usage per year is 8% loss.

Oh! Sorry, yes. @dang can I edit it, please?
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