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Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

drive.com.au

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Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#271

Post by kakacik »

dotancohen wrote: post #262
NetMageSCW wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think Porsche has a responsive excellent design with their infotainment / button combination though recent SUV / sedan models have moved to capacitive buttons and more touch screen controls and worsened the experience. To be fair, it is outsourced to Harmon/Kardon.

Last month I spoke to a woman driving a Porsche SUV. I was appalled to hear that she is trading it in for a Tesla model Y. I drive a Tesla, and I love it, but it is nowhere near the level of a Porsche. She claims that the model Y is quieter then the Porsche and she loves the self-driving. I advised her to take the Tesla for a long test drive before selling her Porshe, she said that her son in law has one.

Marketing beats quality, also a valid approach.

Also a reason why suvs and their more ridiculous variants picked up so well. People don't need cars that are worse to drive, but sure as hell they want one because others have them.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#272

Post by thefounder »

dotancohen wrote: post #262
NetMageSCW wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think Porsche has a responsive excellent design with their infotainment / button combination though recent SUV / sedan models have moved to capacitive buttons and more touch screen controls and worsened the experience. To be fair, it is outsourced to Harmon/Kardon.

Last month I spoke to a woman driving a Porsche SUV. I was appalled to hear that she is trading it in for a Tesla model Y. I drive a Tesla, and I love it, but it is nowhere near the level of a Porsche. She claims that the model Y is quieter then the Porsche and she loves the self-driving. I advised her to take the Tesla for a long test drive before selling her Porshe, she said that her son in law has one.

Little she knows that if she uses the “self driving” from Tesla she may get into a death trap.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#273

Post by mvkel »

The argument of buttons vs no buttons is missing the forest for the trees.

Teslas have a mere two buttons and are generally a joy to use. Why? Because the UI/UX was taken seriously, and the cpu hardware wasn't sourced from the dolllar store. This combination resulted in a screen-only experience that is responsive and easy to use (if you disagree with this, I will point you to Tesla's consumer satisfaction ratings, which say otherwise).

Every other car manufacturer followed suit, but made a critical mistake in that they only saw the cost savings in not needing to manufacture and build a bunch of switches. They forgot to do the necessary UI/UX work, and fitted their vehicles with a cpu out of a TI-83.

The reason why consumers are complaining about every other car manufacturer isn't because they have no buttons; it's because the screen-only experience isn't intuitive. Make it intuitive and the complaints go away.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#274

Post by ErroneousBosh »

aenis wrote: post #47

'He also explained that "I'm a big believer in screens, because I really believe if you want to connect, you have to make the magic work behind the screen." ' I am a big believer in keeping "product people" away from UI design for dangerous machinery. The eyes and the attention of the driver should be on the road. All the audio visual noise from the car is just plain dangerous. I don't want my car to draw my attentio…

> My Volvo will, for instance, flash the same type of visual alert when fuel level is low (permanent "do you want to navigate to a fuel station" modal window obscuring navigation, speedometer and so on) -- as when it encounters a serious engine malfunction.

My 30-year-old Range Rover uses the same three high-pitched beep to alert you that you're getting close to the speed set on the speed limiter (if you set it for 70, it beeps at 67) that it uses to indicate that it's lost oil pressure, or has lost all its brake pressure or coolant, or the gearbox is on fire.

The button broke on the speed limiter, so I set it to zero (no alerts) and have not bothered with it since, bloody useless thing.

The Kia Niro EVs we have at work beep and flash when they think you're being distracted by something, to warn you not to be distracted by things, with a big distracting flashing warning.

They also - at least the last time I drove one - start beeping and flashing and showing a big coffee cup symbol overlaying the speedometer, if it thinks you've been driving too long and need to take a break. It starts doing this maybe 20 or 30 miles into the journey. Might be good if you suggest somewhere I could actually get a coffee then, oh wait, we're in the middle of a gigantic nature reserve, there isn't a coffee shop for another 100 miles, maybe just STFU then eh?

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#275

Post by m463 »

I think they should distinguish between controls and settings.

Settings are great on a touchscreen. A wide variety of options, easily navigated to and explained. They suck on physical buttons, it ends up being like setting the time on a VCR.

Controls on the other hand deserve physical buttons. Or levers. or dials/knobs/spinners. It should depend on muscle memory, and the type of control.

I also thing driving status should be on a dashboard in front of you, not on the central display. (looking at you tesla)

And some should be multiple places. It might be nice to set your volume with a physical knob, but also on the steering wheel.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#276

Post by fooker »

mvkel wrote: post #273

The argument of buttons vs no buttons is missing the forest for the trees. Teslas have a mere two buttons and are generally a joy to use. Why? Because the UI/UX was taken seriously, and the cpu hardware wasn't sourced from the dolllar store. This combination resulted in a screen-only experience that is responsive and easy to use (if you disagree with this, I will point you to Tesla's consumer satisfaction ratings, wh…

Tesla software is in no way a joy to use. I had rented one and it was infuriatingly bad. I'm sure people can get used to it, but people can get used to literally anything.

The map looks like it really wants to be in Star Trek more than than it is meant to be usable software.

Doing simple things takes getting into menus 2-3 layers deep, often while driving.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#277

Post by kgwgk »

aenis wrote: post #213
ajross wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So screens can replace "mirrors" and not "buttons"? Seems like excuse-making to me. I repeat: I'd prefer to see more analysis and less sloganeering, especially where you "assume that was obvious".

My argument was to keep the attention of the driver on the road. To that end, I don't care whether I am looking at a physical mirror or a screen that replaced one (as long as its good, high res, low latency screen) - I am looking in the direction I am driving and focused on steering the vehicle. For the same reason I don't mind (in fact, I appreciate) the silent helpers such as ABS, ESP, 4x4 and so on - all of those…

> I don't care whether I am looking at a physical mirror or a screen that replaced one

You may care when you grow older. Looking at the reflection on a physical mirror of something far away is very different from looking at an image of the thing displayed on a screen close to your face.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#278

Post by ErroneousBosh »

washingupliquid wrote: post #117
Barbing wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The low fuel, low wiper fluid, and forward collision warnings sound like they were all implemented a little clumsily. What do you think the best implementation would look like? Seems it would still have to strike a balance. It's dangerous to tell the driver they're low on fuel if we distract them. But it's also dangerous for a driver to run out of fuel on the highway if we didn't catch their attention. Also guessing…

> What do you think the best implementation would look like? Seems it would still have to strike a balance. Somehow a small amber light (in the shape of a fuel pump) and a chime has worked for decades and there haven't been hordes of drivers stranded as a result. Something your grandmother could easily understand. 10-15 year old cars maybe give an additional small information message in the cluster easily dismissible…

> Analog tach and speedo with idiot lights for critical alerts (there is literally an ISO standard for this) should be mandated by law. Substitute tach for a battery monitor in an EV.

You don't need a tacho. Some people add them in, like the Mini dashboard in the pic below, but they are absolutely not necessary. We managed fine without them for long enough.

https://treasuredcars.com/public/uploads/2019/10/22/mini_cla...

There you go, 1970 Mini, it's a 1275 version so it has an oil pressure gauge and an aftermarket rev counter.

Does your modern car actually *need* anything more exciting than that?

Compare these:

1982 Volvo, like I bought after I passed my driving test in the early 90s:

https://autopecas.norsider.pt/content/images/thumbs/136/1365...

2004 Range Rover P38A similar to the '97 I drive now although this is a NAS-spec cluster (like with the "unleaded fuel only" placard):

https://www.rangerovers.net/attachments/smartselect_20210517...

Notice something? Both have the fuel gauge, Volvo has a clock but posh models had a tacho, Rangie has a tacho, then both have the speedo, then the temperature gauge.

The Volvo has the idiot lights along the top, the Range Rover has them along the bottom - and in the middle a 20x2 LCD (which in that one looks a bit worse for wear) which shows the odometer, gear selection, and occasionally lies about fault conditions.

Doesn't it remind you a little of how aircraft have a standard "Six Pack" layout for the flight instruments?

We should do it this way.

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#279

Post by seydor »

mvkel wrote: post #273

The argument of buttons vs no buttons is missing the forest for the trees. Teslas have a mere two buttons and are generally a joy to use. Why? Because the UI/UX was taken seriously, and the cpu hardware wasn't sourced from the dolllar store. This combination resulted in a screen-only experience that is responsive and easy to use (if you disagree with this, I will point you to Tesla's consumer satisfaction ratings, wh…

recent survey suggests Tesla is last among competitors in user satisfaction when it comes to usability https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-s...

Re: Mercedes-Benz commits to bringing back physical buttons

#280

Post by eknkc »

fooker wrote: post #276
mvkel wrote: post #273

The argument of buttons vs no buttons is missing the forest for the trees. Teslas have a mere two buttons and are generally a joy to use. Why? Because the UI/UX was taken seriously, and the cpu hardware wasn't sourced from the dolllar store. This combination resulted in a screen-only experience that is responsive and easy to use (if you disagree with this, I will point you to Tesla's consumer satisfaction ratings, wh…

Tesla software is in no way a joy to use. I had rented one and it was infuriatingly bad. I'm sure people can get used to it, but people can get used to literally anything. The map looks like it really wants to be in Star Trek more than than it is meant to be usable software. Doing simple things takes getting into menus 2-3 layers deep, often while driving.

I’ve been driving a Model Y for a year now. Used to have a Volvo with android automotive and before that a Mercedes Benz with the.. I’m not sure whatever that OS is called.

Tesla sw is miles better than the previous two. It is responsive and laid out well. When you get used to it, it is intuitive. Android was not that bad but the visual design was much worse and it was laggy.

The MB software can die in hell. It is the worst piece of shit ever been built by humans. And it is running on hopes and dreams instead of a capable processor. Note that this was an E class so not an entry model. (Even then, there is no excuse)

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