Live data from Hacker News

Utah to hold websites liable for users who mask their location with VPNs

tomshardware.com

271–280 of 301 posts

Re: Utah to hold websites liable for users who mask their location with VPNs

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's all block whole countries just because our propagandists brainwashed us so, yay, what an Internet that'll be!

Russia and the US are currently attacking and threatening their neighbors in their respective wars of aggression.

However, only russians are commiting war crimes almost daily to their neighbors.

Re: Utah to hold websites liable for users who mask their location with VPNs

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is clearly somehow coordinated Well, yes—parents’ groups are coordinating. Similar to how drunk driving and cigarette rules were passed globally in about a generation. You don’t need reptiles when polling is so strongly against kids on social media.

It's much more than parents' groups. This is coming "top down". For example, here in Switzerland the government decided E-IDs would be a great idea. The population killed the proposal the first time, with a referendum. So the government tried again, and we failed to kill it the second time.

> This is coming "top down"

It’s both. This is an unpopular opinion on HN, but most Americans support banning social media for kids younger than 14. The implementation details are not being thought through, which is a problem. But pretending this is a conspiracy is a silly way for technical experts to cede their seats at the table.

Re: Utah to hold websites liable for users who mask their location with VPNs

#273

Here's the website of Utah's governor if you want to access it via a VPN: https://www.votecox.com/

No GDPR banner, even if visiting the website from EU

What GDPR banner? GDPR doesn't impose any banners. ePrivacy Directive did, and it's actually a choice: use tracking cookies with consent, or don't use tracking cookies and no consent is needed.

Re: Utah to hold websites liable for users who mask their location with VPNs

#274
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Utah hosts I think the biggest nsa data center. Honestly, I would like my ISP to block all traffic to and from Utah if this law passes. I can't think of anything I want or need that involves that state.

Unfortunately it does not work that way unless perhaps I am misunderstanding your comment . The traffic monitored by the NSA will pass through their collection points in each state and will be silently mirrored to them regardless of the routing of your ISP. Even if your specific ISP does not mirror data the traffic will very likely pass through ISP's that do.

yeah this be the answer.

the Utah DC is just storage. NSA copies whatever it wants to locally and backs it up in Utah.

Only way you gonna avoid that is to use a meshnet that avoid major ISPs

Re: Utah to hold websites liable for users who mask their location with VPNs

#275
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused where all of this censorship is originating from. What wave of efforts is culminating? I can't really explain this from any movement I can see.

It looks like a coordinated effort from multiple defense companies like meta, and I believe openai, and I think palantir.

palantir got all of the social security numbers in the US and now want to correlate all traffic against them.

yalls gonna have "social credit" scores real soon

Re: Utah to hold websites liable for users who mask their location with VPNs

#276
post #89

I am completely baffled by this wave of new laws and proposals... they feel dystopic and can seemingly only lead to brutal restrictions on the internet. What will we end up with? Only attested modems / endpoints in the home? With DPI? And a government issued smartcard to use it? It comes across as if this is what some legislators are actually after... they must have some technical advisors who can explain to them tha…

when can we hold lawmakers personally responsible for any consequences resulting from passing bad laws?

you can hold them responsible on election day.

you can hold them responsible by taking time out of your day to knock on doors, protest, hold up signs, or get involved.

you can hold them responsible by donating to parties, movements, and organizations that back consequences for passing bad laws.

Re: Utah to hold websites liable for users who mask their location with VPNs

#277
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technical measures while technically existing failed first in China and then in Russia lately, Russian authorities recently all but admitted that they can not block xray+reality-style VPNs (which were and are developed in China to go over their "great firewall") and now talk about a blanket ban on foreign traffic and basically a whitelist for internet. The goal is always a perception of control of public narrative. T…

Countries like China and Russia are different, in that they try to catch all communication towards every website, most of them outside of their jurisdiction. They're targeting internet users, and without installing a watchdog on either the server side or the client side, that's hard to pull off on the encrypted internet. Laws like these target the website providers. These website providers are in control of infrastru…

You are wrong. The goal is not to "catch all communication" whatever that means.

For the most part that has been accomplished before Snowden, and it does not help much in shaping the public opinion as they perceive it, which is the end goal.

No one cares about drugs or porn outside of them being useful labels to incite public outrage in certain cultures, like US. For example, in eastern europe no one gives a shit about that. Or your Epstein brouhaha either, reaction being - lolwut, what's the drama, they all did that in adriatic for as long as anyone can remember.

All this moral crusade is just smoke, no one behind it gives a shit about porn, children or drug money, get real.

Now cutting down freedom of expression, that's something that could help them. So they attack along the axis of denying means to execute it, as in making it hard to have a visibile discussion on internets so that less people bother. And in that targeting websites with idiocy like age/identity verification is quite useful.

Re: Utah to hold websites liable for users who mask their location with VPNs

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be an unfair reframing. The original intent was that erasing their tax revenue weakens the authoritarian regime by draining it of the resources needed for enforcement of unfair laws.

I understood the original intent. I just don't think it's a viable solution. The US govt has not been shy about borrowing and printing more money to do whatever they want.

That borrowing funds only the federal government, not the state government. The states don't get to borrow in the same way. Also, that borrowing will increasingly come with a high interest rate and high inflation.

Re: Utah to hold websites liable for users who mask their location with VPNs

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. That’s how someone with pervasive access to Internet infrastructure could tell when I’m on a VPN. It’s impossible for a given website to tell that I’m accessing it over a VPN. Not difficult: impossible. It cannot be done.

Most of these features can be employed on the website side perfectly fine. Tools like https://obfusgated.com/tools/vpn-detection-test will use very basic timing tricks to detect VPNs, for instance. Not very reliable, but if you add data points about things like MTU size and WebRTC, and cross-reference that with GeoIP location, you could detect most VPNs. Not without rejecting a small amount of edge cases (Firefox use…

BTW, I connected to that test using Apple’s Private Relay and it rated my VPN-ness as 0%. I stand by my point.

Re: Utah to hold websites liable for users who mask their location with VPNs

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They obviously get the ideas from the same sources. Somewhere they don't invite ordinary people to like Davos or other conferences.

Could just be monkey see monkey do.

Then it is monkey see, monkey do the same/similar policies on smoking control, LEZ, digital ID, children's education, red meat and fish consumption, alcohol consumption, women's rights and a whole host of other things.

Some of these are good causes, some not so much. Some of them rely on an excluded middle.

Post reply on HN