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Maladaptive Frugality

herbertlui.net

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Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#271

Post by 59percentmore »

drakenot wrote: post #119
59percentmore wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debt is also a way of normalizing, essentially, wage theft. You're encouraged to use credit to bridge gaps when what you're paid doesn't cover your necessities, let alone other expenses that you're expected to take on. When you can't pay back the debt you took out to live what is considered a normal or even frugal lifestyle, the justice system is used as a cudgel against you, often in the form of professional debt co…

I have zero consumer debt and pay off any credit card at the end of the month. But I don’t mind work expenses on my personal card? I get reward benefits for a sizable chunk of expenses that I’m directly reimbursed for?

n=1

That's a personal choice. You alone should be able to decide if that's worth the complications it introduces to your taxes and your relationship with your employer. However, the cleanest and most dignified route is to pay for expenses incurred in the course of business. And employees should have the right to refuse to put up their own money for such expenses, without consequence.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#272

Post by kristianp »

lstodd wrote: post #80

There is frugality and there is taking inflation into account when deciding on save vs loan. For the last many years it was net profit to take loans, spend and pay them back later because inflation meant you got more goods/services that way. On the other hand keeping cash/savings over some smallish buffer where opportunity costs dominate is/was always net loss. That not touching US-specific stuff like insane student…

Inflation has caused my savings and investments to take a hit in real value. Now with oil prices we're getting another inflation hit.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#273

Post by [deleted] »

ubermonkey wrote: post #267
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Last year I sold a townhouse in Houston that I'd owned since 2000; I made money, but not the kind of upside that you wanna write home about Sure but you made money. If you had rented you would have lost that money. Renting only makes sense if the opportunity cost is higher, e.g. if you think the time value of the money that would be put into the down payment is higher in the markets than it would have been on a hom…

I'm saying it made sense for ME in 2000. I'm saying it's less obviously a good move for a 30 year old in 2026. I have a strong suspicion that housing is due for a correction. Appreciation requires demand, and housing is now so expensive that Gen Z can't get on the ladder. That plus the looming Boomer die-off seems to point to a reversal of some housing gains.

[deleted]

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#274

Post by bdangubic »

lstodd wrote: post #80

There is frugality and there is taking inflation into account when deciding on save vs loan. For the last many years it was net profit to take loans, spend and pay them back later because inflation meant you got more goods/services that way. On the other hand keeping cash/savings over some smallish buffer where opportunity costs dominate is/was always net loss. That not touching US-specific stuff like insane student…

> For the last many years it was net profit to take loans, spend and pay them back later because inflation meant you got more goods/services that way.

this would he true if the wages kept up with inflation and of course that as we know well has not even remotely been the case

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#275

Post by m463 »

ubermonkey wrote: post #255
bachmeier wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heavy debt is a part of the US culture. You can probably imagine the responses folks would have when they found out I was 40, a tenured professor with a family, and didn't own a house. Nobody had a heart attack but I'm sure some were close. I was just violating cultural norms too much by not going into debt to buy a house as anyone in my position was supposed to do. Then they'd find out I drove an old vehicle and did…

Home debt has traditionally been seen as "good debt" for a bunch of reasons, but the big ones were that (a) Home loans meant you were accumulating equity in an appreciating asset; and (b) Mortgage interest was enough to allow most people to take a larger-than-standard deduction on income taxes; and (c) The relationship between home prices and the equivalent rental market meant you could probably have a nicer place fo…

In california I've noticed lots of other things. prop 13 might make apartments pay less taxes than comparable condos, and condos also have HOA fees that can easily be $2k. I've even seen HOA fees on single family homes.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#276

Post by Karrot_Kream »

ubermonkey wrote: post #267
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Last year I sold a townhouse in Houston that I'd owned since 2000; I made money, but not the kind of upside that you wanna write home about Sure but you made money. If you had rented you would have lost that money. Renting only makes sense if the opportunity cost is higher, e.g. if you think the time value of the money that would be put into the down payment is higher in the markets than it would have been on a hom…

I'm saying it made sense for ME in 2000. I'm saying it's less obviously a good move for a 30 year old in 2026. I have a strong suspicion that housing is due for a correction. Appreciation requires demand, and housing is now so expensive that Gen Z can't get on the ladder. That plus the looming Boomer die-off seems to point to a reversal of some housing gains.

I think housing in the US is just such a complicated space (Fannie/Freddie backstopped loans, ridiculous zoning and building requirements (FAR, setbacks, etc), environmental laws, varying property tax regimes, prevailing wage requirements for building in places, etc that it's just really difficult to understand. It's like a ridiculously complicated layered system of public and private regs and incentives that lead to very inscrutable results.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#277

Post by doubled112 »

jimbokun wrote: post #250
ubermonkey wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's definitely true, and I have a whole other rant how my cycling pals and I love to poke fun at dudes who show up to the group ride on a brand new $10,000 bike and get dropped before the midpoint. BUT! It's easier than you think to get a point in participatory motorsports where the difference between, say, a Cayman and a Miata is something you can actively use.

Curious what would you say is the sweet spot to pay for a bicycle before rapid diminishing returns? I still feel like if you go out for a long ride on a Huffy from Walmart you might hurt yourself.

Doesn’t have to be long ride.

One time I bought a bike from Walmart and didn’t make it the 5km home before I lost a crank arm.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#278

Post by engineer_22 »

cloverich wrote: post #193
engineer_22 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What you see is [...] packaged in a way to make the viewers feel good and not sad. Maybe. Or maybe they are genuinely young, free, and happy. > Most of us, educated, are aware of the fact that we are one medical emergency away from being bankrupt. Yes, but being aware of your mortality is inextricably linked to the human experience. Not a bug, a feature. > Means for me personally includes not worrying about healthc…

> but being aware of your mortality is inextricably linked to the human experience. They aren't aware / afraid of their mortality. They are aware of the lack of financial safety net / social support. It is in effect everyone accepting a more primal state of affairs, where the weak die, as a virtue. Rather than a state of affairs that we are economically capable of: Universal healthcare. Many of us understand this is…

How much money is your life worth?

How much is the government willing to spend to keep it?

How much are you willing to spend?

What is healthcare, and how to distinguish that from simply prolonging the inevitable?

And what of those who refuse to eat well and exercise?

What of those who smoke, drink, and debauch themselves? Or ride motorcycles and jump from high places?

How do we prioritize our doctors' already strained schedules?

Unfortunately, from my perspective, universal healthcare sounds like it may require more draconian calculus than the imperfect system we now enjoy.

Do I empathize with my neighbor who struggles with the load? Of course I do!

But should I want to take his place when I've carried a burden of my own?

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#279

Post by engineer_22 »

adithyassekhar wrote: post #216
engineer_22 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What you see is [...] packaged in a way to make the viewers feel good and not sad. Maybe. Or maybe they are genuinely young, free, and happy. > Most of us, educated, are aware of the fact that we are one medical emergency away from being bankrupt. Yes, but being aware of your mortality is inextricably linked to the human experience. Not a bug, a feature. > Means for me personally includes not worrying about healthc…

> What I mean by "live within your means" is to spend less than you earn. I see where you are coming from, I genuinely take it in good faith. There's just this constant pressure to be this or that at certain stages of our lives, especially in the asian culture I am part of. I've managed to avoid these all my life but lately I've been falling for it as well. > I have been in poverty in my life, and I feel fortunate th…

What you described, it reminds me of what I saw on TV when I was a little boy, lemmings marching to the sea. I see similarities with young people in USA.

We are smarter than lemmings, we can see the danger, but we're also smart enough to convince ourselves that our eyes betray us there is no danger.

Marching forward while calling back for those behind to carry a rope, this is still the same madness, isn't it?

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#280

Post by bdangubic »

engineer_22 wrote: post #278
cloverich wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but being aware of your mortality is inextricably linked to the human experience. They aren't aware / afraid of their mortality. They are aware of the lack of financial safety net / social support. It is in effect everyone accepting a more primal state of affairs, where the weak die, as a virtue. Rather than a state of affairs that we are economically capable of: Universal healthcare. Many of us understand this is…

How much money is your life worth? How much is the government willing to spend to keep it? How much are you willing to spend? What is healthcare, and how to distinguish that from simply prolonging the inevitable? And what of those who refuse to eat well and exercise? What of those who smoke, drink, and debauch themselves? Or ride motorcycles and jump from high places? How do we prioritize our doctors' already straine…

You are looking at this from the wrong angle. We get taxed a lot (not if you are ultrawealthy but still…). so government is taking shitton of money in exchange for…? well in the USA it is in exchange for paying down debt and department of “defense” so that we can bomb the shit out of everyone we want whenever we want. we also spend shitton of money on healthcare already but this money is going you know where, middlemen and racking in profits and doing a whole lot of other things except providing care. so the question is - where would you rather your tax dollars be spent? and also another question which is why are Americans the only citizens of any developed nation where providing care is “impossible”?
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