Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, perhaps they make verifying it hard.. but what is stopping you from publishing an app in the app store, while also hosting the source code for anyone to see, and use? 99 bucks a year?
Who is gonna make sure that what I put in github is exactly what I am pushing to the store.
Period tracking app, Flo, found to be selling user data to Meta
271–280 of 285 posts
Re: Period tracking app, Flo, found to be selling user data to Meta
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is actually a perfectly practical choice to completely ignore those ecosystems. I am the founder and active engineer at two companies and two large open source projects and have a family, travel a lot, and have an active social life in Silicon Valley. I also do not use any Apple, Google, Meta, or Microsoft products and exclusively use open source software for all of my work. It turns out none of this is incompatib…
Do you have only a dumb phone?
Re: Period tracking app, Flo, found to be selling user data to Meta
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is actually a perfectly practical choice to completely ignore those ecosystems. I am the founder and active engineer at two companies and two large open source projects and have a family, travel a lot, and have an active social life in Silicon Valley. I also do not use any Apple, Google, Meta, or Microsoft products and exclusively use open source software for all of my work. It turns out none of this is incompatib…
Do you have a blog post or similar that describes how you do this?
Re: Period tracking app, Flo, found to be selling user data to Meta
#274I don’t have the right configuration of equipment to use an app like this, but does anyone know why this needs to be a service-driven app? What piece of functionality requires a server to track your health?
Not being a women, I've always wondered what insight the app gives regardless of data traveling to a server... does it do anything you can't do with a simple notebook app (like Apple's default Notes)? If you have an irregular period, does this app help "guess" when it's going to start/end? If you have a regular period, why do you need an app at all?
You probably don't need to use it if your cycle is completely regular and it doesn't really impact your daily life, but it's not as common as you might think: about 10% of women have PCOS, which is the leading cause of oligomenorrhea; about 10% have endometriosis, which often causes debilitating pain and irregular periods (with a small overlap with PCOS population); 20% to 30% live with PMS - and that's only the portion that has clinically significant symptoms. Even if you were lucky enough to avoid all of these, your cycle length will change as you age, gain or lose weight, and inevitably reach menopause.
Still, you'll have to at least mark the dates. Someone here in the comments compared it to tracking completely optional fitness metrics like sleep or steps, but period data is not really in the same bucket. Just as an illustration: it's hard to see a doctor without being asked "when was your last period?" or "any chance you might be pregnant?", no matter what brought you into the office. In fact, it is such a common experience that it became a subject of many jokes [1]. Also, if you only rely on your memory, you might not notice if/when you do experience changes, some of which might be medically significant.
But let's say you've already decided to track your data somehow.
> what does the app give [...] does it do anything you can't do with a simple notebook app?
Valid question. Some people do just use notes, especially when they don't experience any problems and don't care much about when their next period is coming. But for many others, there are plenty of valid use cases:
1. Reminders for ovulation and next periods. The app can also remind you to enter the data if it thinks you should've had a period but you didn't enter anything. 2. Sharing with your partner. You could, theoretically, write it in a shared document or hand over your paper notebook in person, but it's much easier to see this type of data in a calendar rather than do mental math every time. Having this option gets even more important if you are trying to conceive and track fertility windows. 3. Not having to do the aforementioned mental math is also convenient for the woman herself. A lot of women, even completely healthy ones, experience an array of various unpleasant symptoms in the luteal phase, as well as changes in mood, physical and even cognitive performance during the cycle. It's just really useful to be able to quickly see the calendar and have an idea of what to expect while making your plans (for example, people might want to adjust their workout routines, book a vacation on a more convenient date, or avoid taking extra responsibilities when they know they are going to feel shitty).
And now for those who were not as lucky.
> If you have an irregular period, does this app help "guess" when it's going to start/end?
It does! Though surprisingly, a lot of apps, including Flo, are still abysmally bad at this: they either give you a median of past cycles, at best unhelpfully telling you that your periods are "late," or require you to enter lots of sensitive and subjective data daily to get useful predictions. It is well-known in medical literature that there are other metrics like resting heart rate and skin temperature that are predictive of different phases, especially when they are combined with other data. I've always wondered why the integration with consumer wearables that track a lot of those indicators with good-enough precision is not commonplace. As far as I know, only Apple Health's cycle tracking feature, Samsung Health, and Oura Ring do that among the major players. A few others like Natural Cycles use temperature, but they are all focused on fertility & conception.
That said, using an app like Drip that allows you to export data freely in a universal format can be incredibly valuable for personal analysis. You can find patterns in your data to make your own "predictor" or determine whether certain medications or lifestyle changes were effective. It can also be helpful at your next doctor visit.
[1] https://www.linkedin.com/posts/thefemalelead_wendi-aarons-a-...
Re: Period tracking app, Flo, found to be selling user data to Meta
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not just executives. They don't will these things into existence. Someone had to build functionality to send user data to Facebook.
Not to side with this behaviour, but I think if you consent to it in the Ts & Cs then it's legal. And that makes sense - otherwise how else do you agree to things or not agree to them?
No. In a paper contract, you can scratch off things you don't agree with. You can negotiate.
You can't do that in Ts & Cs. For example, Ts & Cs often unilaterally change with no ability for you to review or cancel or undo. It's trivially easy to write software which uses services without ever agreeing to Ts & Cs. So it's not really a legal contract.
> And that makes sense - otherwise how else do you agree to things or not agree to them?
Through a real negotiation. With a paper contract, that both parties sign, and both parties receive a copy of, and that can't be unilaterally changed.
Re: Period tracking app, Flo, found to be selling user data to Meta
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unfortunately, companies like Apple (and soon Google as well) are making this unnecessarily hard in their phone ecosystems.
Well, perhaps they make verifying it hard.. but what is stopping you from publishing an app in the app store, while also hosting the source code for anyone to see, and use? 99 bucks a year?
You're already contributing a lot of personal investment to society with developing and maintaining FOSS and now you have to feed one of the world's richest companies' bottom line too just to make it available to their particular users? Yeah, no. Most FOSS devs simply won't publish there. Mac and homebrew can already be a pain, but iOS is just evil. Sucks for the users, but that's generally what you get for buying Apple. If they wanted this stuff on their platform, they'd make it easier, not harder. But they care more about making money with other people's software than offering a genuinely good service.
Re: Period tracking app, Flo, found to be selling user data to Meta
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
Congrats on your independence! What you're describing is my goal state, but sadly I'm not there yet. It seems like it's the last 10-20% of "sticky" dependencies that always trip me up (granted, some of those are merely "nice to haves" like tap-to-pay, not actually hard barriers). If you get a second, would you mind sharing any general advice and/or specific recommendations that might help me and other like-minded peo…
First thing is nuke tap to pay. That is surveillance capitalism dependence masquerading as convenience. Step one, and I am serious, is just use cash. Every time you pay with cash at a drug store, a liquer store, a casino, donation boxes, clothes, that is a tiny bit less information corpos and politicians can buy about how healthy you are, what causes you support, and how to manipulate you. Just use cash, falling back…
I'm also interested in the mechanics of how you actually do it: for eg. your mention of paper maps for travel makes me think if a lot of that becomes workable because you're in planned cities with reliable maps. I'm a mid sized town in India where maps are vague guides for the general layout, but are missing the many many alleys and connecting roads that people actually live on (or have shops at). Roads, road names, traffic restrictions - pretty much every part of it is chaotic and incredibly hard to put together without a GPS on a digital map.
On the family aspect too, do you have a Matrix or similar for the larger family to connect through and share news on (their own travel for eg., or difficulties they might be having, or news like child birth), or do you only use phone calls or texts to connect?
In any case, I can definitely relate to:
> even worse, you are mentally always ready to be contacted, for a new dopamine hit of information or a new decision to make.
and feel the negative effects of that, so I'll be moving actively towards what you're suggesting. Maybe to a different point on the line and with different workarounds, but it sounds at least 90% workable and with significant benefits too.
Re: Period tracking app, Flo, found to be selling user data to Meta
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
Drip has a paradoxical flaw: by trying to be extremely inclusive and making a "gender-neutral" app (without the colour pink) to include trans people, it discourages some people from using it. At least, my friend told me she thought the design was ugly and was looking for a "cute" app, so she ended up using Flo instead of Drip despite my many warnings. I think FLOSS apps often forget that not everyone is a developer o…
took me a while to figure out what you were even responding to: > Not another cute, pink app. drip. is designed with gender inclusivity in mindful so a FOSS community should bimboify their app because your friend wants her data pinkwashed more than she wants her data safe? sounds like a her problem but she could always fork herself
If Drip had a pink theme, I'd use it (albeit I'm fond of their current design, too!).
Re: Period tracking app, Flo, found to be selling user data to Meta
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
First thing is nuke tap to pay. That is surveillance capitalism dependence masquerading as convenience. Step one, and I am serious, is just use cash. Every time you pay with cash at a drug store, a liquer store, a casino, donation boxes, clothes, that is a tiny bit less information corpos and politicians can buy about how healthy you are, what causes you support, and how to manipulate you. Just use cash, falling back…
That is a useful guide in terms of the personal psychology of how to go about doing it, which is an important side of it, thank you. I'm also interested in the mechanics of how you actually do it: for eg. your mention of paper maps for travel makes me think if a lot of that becomes workable because you're in planned cities with reliable maps. I'm a mid sized town in India where maps are vague guides for the general l…
If digital maps on GPS know about directions, then so does the internet, and the directions can be printed or jotted down in advance which is my go-to solution in new cities. A little trip planning makes trips safer and less stressful. You also end up remembering it faster. Regularly using a GPS provably atrophies parts of our brains in MRI scan studies. We were evolved to regularly reason about our position in the physical world and making decisions about where to turn from our own memories.
> On the family aspect too, do you have a Matrix or similar for the larger family to connect through and share news on (their own travel for eg., or difficulties they might be having, or news like child birth), or do you only use phone calls or texts to connect?
We helped move all family to Matrix. Most also use Facebook, but everyone worth talking to understands it is not reasonable to ask us to agree to Zucks terms of service to talk to them. They probably created facebook accounts in the first place for the same reason, so we do not feel bad about this ask.
That said we also ported our cell phone numbers to a voip provider so we can still access calls/texts from any wifi device, or DECT phones around our home.
Re: Period tracking app, Flo, found to be selling user data to Meta
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm sorry but this is bordering on parody to me. The way she would notice it "sooner or later" is by her bleeding on her clothes and possibly even furniture. In what world is it important for you to just know about it and somehow not important for her to avoid that?
> The way she would notice it "sooner or later" is by her bleeding on her clothes and possibly even furniture. No, many can feel it beforehand, and you notice it when you go to the bathroom before as well, as certain things change their properties slightly, it's not a "nothing" phase and then "floods out of your body". It's borderline parody how little education there is for males when it comes to things like this.
You seem to forget that there is about a third of the day when shockingly enough a person is not conscious to feel blood leaking out of them. I mentioned staining furniture for a reason - I promise you that menstruation does not wait for you to wake up to start.