I won't comment on the pick up / drop off situation, but another important scenario is right turns. In California, drivers are legally required to merge into the bike lane when making a right turn. This is for the safety of the bicyclists, to avoid the dreaded "right hook" collision. Dylan Taylor, a beloved Menlo-Atherton High School football coach, was killed last year in one of these collisions: https://www.almanac…
Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them
271–280 of 456 posts
Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m pretty sure it went something like “so where are we allowed to pickup and drop off riders” and the city couldn’t answer. The problem isn’t really enforcement, the problem is that there are simply no alternatives, and the city shies away from enforcement because they know that. If they started enforcing the rules strictly, people would again ask questions that they aren’t prepared to answer. If you compare that to…
One question the city probably can't answer is what disabled persons in the taxi are supposed to do. If you strictly enforce bike lanes the result is probably the rider needing to walk a few blocks. If the rider is disabled, that could actually be a huge burden. Since I've got an 80+ year old disabled parent with a walker this is an issue for me that does compete pretty aggressively with my support for bikes.
... bike lanes are not the only thing that creates this issue. Any road that lacks parking, with or without bike lanes, will have the same problem. Even when there is parking, all of the parking spots may be occupied. In both cases, people may have to walk a few blocks. While they may be grouchy about the lack of (sufficient) parking, you don't see many people blaming motorists for placing a burden on the elderly.
Finally, it is always possible to make accommodations. Having a carve-out for loading and unloading taxis will do far more for safety of everybody than letting people stop anywhere in bike lanes. It is also possible to have exceptions for people with disabilities, as long as non-disabled people don't abuse it.
Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
Blocking the right car lane for a drop off is perfectly legal outside of No Stopping zones. This is how taxis have always worked. It's just that other drivers get pissed off if you block a car lane when there's a bike lane next to it. That needs to be trained away by enforcing the rules.
That works for taxis but not for deliveries.
Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
Odds are conditional though. As a father, I think that the odds are quite high that a 3 years old child will get hit by a cyclist, especially if they ride on the sidewalk. I have had several stressful close calls with my son, and my pregnant wife was hit by a cyclist who didn't respect the red light (as it is the custom among the high lords of the road).
> I think that the odds are quite high that a 3 years old child will get hit by a cyclist You should see the odds of a child being hit by a car! Here in the US, about 6 children a day are hit and killed by a motor vehicle. And yet the number of children hit and killed by bicycles is unavailable -- perhaps because it is close to 0? I understand that "as a father" you may become paranoid about things that are objective…
So, your statistics are worthless if you don't take the context into account. And even if "there is no risk" (virtually), I'm allowed to say that cyclists going at 25km/h have no business on the sidewalk where I walk at 5km/h.
Cyclists think just like car drivers, and find it totally fine, since they themselves "feel unsafe from cars who go too fast". Of course the feelings of the pedestrian plebeians don't count for the new noble equestrian and morally righteous class.
Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
Waymo and other taxi services are inherently bad for cyclists compared to increasing transit utilization and providing more ways to walk and cycle that feel and are safe. They’re even bad for drivers as they are more detrimental to traffic than personal car ownership. They take up space on the road even when they aren’t being used to transport anyone. I think we should spend less time worrying about ride share policy…
>> Waymo and other taxi services are inherently bad for cyclists compared to increasing transit utilisation and providing more ways to walk and cycle that feel and are safe. This is nonsense. Even in places with great public transport a lot of people own cars because taxi's and Uber's are unreliable or unavailable. Given Waymo should be available at any time of day and not pick + choose rides as randomly a lot of car…
Example: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-020-00678-z#Sec8
Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, in sane countries the rules are attempted to be defined in a fair way, and you can follow them. Not perfectly of course, but with that goal. Like the Netherlands, it is (A) not possible to park in bike paths without going intentionally out of your way, and (B) there are reasonable alternatives, such as specific “loading zones” for passengers on nearly every block, on major roads. On minor neighborhood roads, you…
It's because the bike lanes are great PR but bad for votes, at least in the short term. City leaders love the greenwashing effect, but in the short term the percentage of people actually biking everywhere is very low, so it doesn't make sense for them to spend a ton of time and money to do it right. In a few years they'll get to put together a committee to discuss "learnings" and maybe they'll fix it if there are eno…
America suffers from a severe execution problem in the last couple of decades. We just can’t implement and follow through with real solutions anymore.
Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
Given the sheer amount of cyclist who think that cars should be banned with no consideration for anything else, I think that this is a common observation. Where I live, the pro-cyclist mayor (whose husband owns a bike rental shop, by pure coincidence) closed a road for cars without consultation, now the firemen along with residents are protesting because emergency and delivery vehicles can't access a large part of th…
Which town is this? I find it hard to believe that the mayor did not add an exception for emergency and commercial vehicles.
You can see a picture of the genius arrangement here: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HGpgA1pXEAEuFLn?format=jpg&name=...
Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
That works for taxis but not for deliveries.
Delivery drivers should find parking. They should be fined heavily for parking in traffic, including bike lanes.
Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them
#279“Waymo won’t avoid bike lanes…” would be much more accurate.
obviously the can’t part would be nonsense. they can avoid lanes where traffic flows the opposite direction so obviously they can.
to me this means we should take their license away. if they said “we won’t avoid oncoming traffic, we would take their license away. just like one way streets are for cars traveling in one direction, bike lanes are for bikes.
if you or i drove the wrong way down a one way repeatedly we would rightfully be in trouble. why do these companies keep behaving like they don’t have to follow the same rules you and i do?
Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them
#280Cities that want to keep cars out of bike lanes should keep all cars out of them, autonomous or not, by ticketing them. But they don't, so taxis and delivery drivers stop in them. That's traffic enforcement's fault. Given that human drivers stop in bike lanes, Waymo then has a tradeoff: 1) Be the only ones to follow the letter of the law, break a lot of people's expectations, and catch backlash for disrupting traffic…
I agree with your analysis but I just want to point out that, as a general rule, cyclists do not follow traffic laws. They don't stop at stop signs/red lights. They weave in and out of traffic. They often bike the wrong way down one-way bike paths.
The same thing can be said for cyclists weaving in and out of traffic, and for good reason: if traffic is moving, it's a good way to kill yourself; if traffic is not moving, there is no need for it. (There is usually enough space on the right to pass. If there isn't enough space on the right to pass, it is unsafe.)
I have seen more motorists barrel the wrong way down a one way street, in reverse, than I have seen cyclists riding down one way streets the wrong way. Proportionally speaking, more cyclists may be breaking the law. In terms of safety, what motorists are doing is far more dangerous.
As for stop signs: other cyclists tend to get the hint when I stop at them on my bike. :) The ones who don't stop tend to do the same as motorists, by doing a "rolling stop". Doing anything less would be a good way to get killed.
So no, I don't agree that cyclists do not follow traffic laws as a general rule. In many cases, motorists are worse. I am not going to pretend that cyclists are better for altruistic reasons. The reality is that cyclists are much more vulnerable than motorists. Cars are made to handle collisions, bikes are not. Motorists pay more attention to cars than bikes, in the most part because other cars are more dangerous to them.