Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's because they're optimizing for a different problem. Western Models are optimizing to be used as an interchangeable product. Chinese models are being optimizing to be built upon.
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DeepSeek v4
271–280 of 1001 posts
Re: DeepSeek v4
#272Truly open source coming from China. This is heartwarming. I know if the potential ulterior motives.
Re: DeepSeek v4
#273I like the pelican I got out of deepseek-v4-flash more than the one I got from deepseek-v4-pro. https://simonwillison.net/2026/Apr/24/deepseek-v4/ Both generated using OpenRouter. For comparison, here's what I got from DeepSeek 3.2 back in December: https://simonwillison.net/2025/Dec/1/deepseek-v32/ And DeepSeek 3.1 in August: https://simonwillison.net/2025/Aug/22/deepseek-31/ And DeepSeek v3-0324 in March last year:…
Where is the GPT 5.5 Pelican?
Re: DeepSeek v4
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
if you want to understand why labs open source their models: http://try.works/why-chinese-ai-labs-went-open-and-will-rema...
> Internet comments say that open sourcing is a national strategy, a loss maker subsidized by the government. On the contrary, it is a commercial strategy and the best strategy available in this industry. This sounds whole lot like potatoh potahto. I think the former argument is very much the correct one: China can undercut everyone and win, even at a loss. Happened with solar panels, steel, evs, sea food - it's a we…
Re: DeepSeek v4
#275Re: DeepSeek v4
#276Re: DeepSeek v4
#277Re: DeepSeek v4
#278Open Source as it gets in this space, top notch developer documentation, and prices insanely low, while delivering frontier model capabilities. So basically, this is from hackers to hackers. Loving it! Also, note that there's zero CUDA dependency. It runs entirely on Huawei chips. In other words, Chinese ecosystem has delivered a complete AI stack. Like it or not, that's a big news. But what's there not to like when…
China is not perfect but a bit of competition is healthy and needed
Re: DeepSeek v4
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think we need to compare models to Opus anymore. Opus users don't care about other models, as they're convinced Opus will be better forever. And non-Opus users don't want the expense, lock-in or limits. As a non-Opus user, I'll continue to use the cheapest fastest models that get my job done, which (for me anyway) is still MiniMax M2.5. I occasionally try a newer, more expensive model, and I get the same resu…
Agree with your assessment, I think after models reached around Opus 4.5 level, its been almost indistinguishable for most tasks. Intelligence has been commoditized, what's important now is the workflows, prompting, and context management. And that is unique to each model.
The tricky part is that the "number of tokens to good result" does absolutely vary, and you need a decent harness to make it work without too much manual intervention, so figuring out which model is most cost-effective for which tasks is becoming increasingly hard, but several are cost-effective enough.
Re: DeepSeek v4
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
doesn't it get tiring after a while? using the same (perceived) gotcha, over and over again, for three years now? no one is ever going to release their training data because it contains every copyrighted work in existence. everyone, even the hecking-wholesome safety-first Anthropic, is using copyrighted data without permission to train their models. there you go.
Nvidia did with Nemo.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/nvidia-is-sued-by-authors...