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Tell HN: Docker pull fails in Spain due to football Cloudflare block

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Re: Tell HN: Docker pull fails in Spain due to football Cloudflare block

#271

Post by manquer »

hunterpayne wrote: post #262
manquer wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real Madrid alone is more than $5B ? Maybe you mean to say league association is worth 5B ? That seems too high the association does not have lot of margins they pass through most of their revenue to the clubs . The last domestic TV deal they signed recently was worth $6B for 5 seasons or so, which is what you are proposing they buy. In enterprise value terms that $1B/year growing 6 %YoY is worth a lot more than $5B.…

Here are RMs financials... https://www.realmadrid.com/en-US/news/club/latest-news/notic... They make about $25m a year in profit. Cloudflair actually looses a small amount of money on 2.5x the revenue. However, Cloudflairs market cap is about 100x that of RM's and that's because they have a growing business, in a growing industry and can easily become profitable when needed. That's probably not possible for RM and th…

It is not the comparison to make, which is why I focused on the league’s tv revenue which is what is relevant , i only bought up Madrid’s valuation to ask where is Laliga ‘s $5B coming from.

Real Madrid owns the Bernabeu a valuable piece of real estate in the heart of Madrid and many other assets the Real Madrid brand is very monetizable .

Sports team have been consistently growing businesses in every major sport in both Europe and US. Comparing a sports team and SaaS company is hardly going to be apples to apples with different asset , revenue, brand and monopoly and strategic profiles.

——

The risk to the league due to piracy is the value of the television deal. The buyer paying $1B/yr (DAZN) is the reason for this enforcement.

If Cloudflare wants to buy this problem away that is what they need — The $1B deal growing 5-6% YoY and get into the streaming business .

Prime alone is expected to spend $4B on live sports rights this year. It is very expensive space with everyone from Apple to Google and Netflix to sovereign funds going deeper every year .

The streaming revenues otherwise aren’t expected to be massively grow so this is the content play that is least risk - compared to investing in say 4-5 blockbuster movies or tv series this is far more predictable and consistent revenue stream.

Re: Tell HN: Docker pull fails in Spain due to football Cloudflare block

#272

Post by bryan_w »

out_of_protocol wrote: post #211
necovek wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should be able to use things like sshuttle or even tunnel through HTTPS whatever you want, right? As you can control both sides of the tunnel with encryption (comes by default), no MITM-ing unless you are forced to use solutions that install and eavesdrop on your secure traffic too.

1) they do protocol sniffing, and any inconsistency (including statistical) gets you blocked 2) "white list mode" which engaged sometimes (poorly implemented atm), means nothing goes outside of country at all (means 99.9% of everything is broken). They really want to become North Korea soon

If they turn off the internet, that gives you more time to meet your neighbors and do "arts and crafts" and read (cook)books. He's getting so old, at some point the horse throws him off

Re: Tell HN: Docker pull fails in Spain due to football Cloudflare block

#273

Post by cool_dude85 »

hunterpayne wrote: post #259
spwa4 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you must realize, the alternative to this is that some very wealthy Spanish companies ... lose a small amount of money. Surely you understand now. Go about your business, poor person.

In all fairness, the Spanish economy is a mine, a farm and a soccer league in a trenchcoat. Better than Ireland which is 2 tax shelters in a trenchcoat, but not by much. Not surprisingly, they are the 2 most left leaning countries in Europe. To be fair, they had an actual fascist government in Spain for several decades and there were atrocities committed.

Ireland, the country with 2 center right parties that differ with regards to patronage networks and political history from 1940, is one of the most left-wing leaning countries in Europe?

Re: Tell HN: Docker pull fails in Spain due to football Cloudflare block

#274

Post by danpalmer »

Robdel12 wrote: post #268

How is this cloudflares problem? This is on LaLiga.

It might not be Cloudflare's fault, but it is their problem. If their customers can't use their products sporadically, it doesn't really matter why. Cloudflare taking a principled approach hurts their users in the short term, so they have to make a business trade-off between pragmatism and principle. Currently they're choosing principle, so it's reasonable to be angry at them for the short term issues that causes.

Re: Tell HN: Docker pull fails in Spain due to football Cloudflare block

#275

Post by mlyle »

pxc wrote: post #264
mlyle wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why would they? Well, in this case, the alternative is all of Spain intermittently blocking lots of Cloudflare. But if Cloudflare bows to Spain in this case, every jurisdiction will want to pile up lots of special case rules for Cloudflare to try and implement.

LaLiga isn't Cloudflare's customer. They have no relationship. So why would Cloudflare rework their infrastructure just to instrument rapid blocking at their own expense as a favor to LaLiga? And if they don't, ISPs just break the Internet for each soccer match? This is a kind of coercion that makes no sense. Cloudflare has no obligation like this to LaLiga (and neither would a Spanish domestic CDN!).

The reason why entities comply with the wishes of courts is because there's consequences if they don't. Consequences like being filtered.

Re: Tell HN: Docker pull fails in Spain due to football Cloudflare block

#276

Post by gruez »

hunterpayne wrote: post #267
gruez wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>total population change in EU countries The figures I cited are for GDP per capita, which accounts for population growth. Moreover immigration should have the opposite effect of depressing per-capita GDP, because immigrants typically take lower skilled jobs, dragging overall productivity down. So if anything, the figures are artificially depressed, not inflated.

You should read down that table a bit. Sure the Spanish economy had higher growth rates the last couple of years. The way they managed to have a higher rate was to have the economy shrink by 8% in 2023. So according to my math, the estimated size of the Spanish economy in 2026 is about the same as the 2023 Spanish economy (within 1%). Hard to claim that as a win. Technically you can say that they have been in a depre…

> So according to my math, the estimated size of the Spanish economy in 2026 is about the same as the 2023 Spanish economy (within 1%). Hard to claim that as a win.

That conclusion does not seem to check out just by eyeballing the charts.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.KD?location...

It shows a divergence from the EU back in the 2010s, but afterwards is recovering at the same pace or even faster than the EU. Could be better, but not "in shambles" either.

Re: Tell HN: Docker pull fails in Spain due to football Cloudflare block

#277

Post by ethin »

This is exactly why random corporations need to be gone from government. Or copyright needs to be abolished, one of the two. No corporation (no matter how beloved) should ever have this kind of power. IMO the more powerful an organization becomes, the deeper the scrutiny should be.

Re: Tell HN: Docker pull fails in Spain due to football Cloudflare block

#278

Post by array_key_first »

ryandrake wrote: post #122
spwa4 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you must realize, the alternative to this is that some very wealthy Spanish companies ... lose a small amount of money. Surely you understand now. Go about your business, poor person.

They don't even "lose a small amount of money." They simply gain less money than usual for a short period of time. Think of how rough that is for them.

Arguably they even gain more money in the long run, because more people have access to their entertainment and they have more opportunities to form life long connections with consumers.

Re: Tell HN: Docker pull fails in Spain due to football Cloudflare block

#279

Post by otterley »

FireBeyond wrote: post #237
otterley wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least the DMCA in the U.S. has guardrails: not just anyone can send a takedown demand for everything. The requester has identify the works and declare under penalty of perjury that they are operating on the behalf of the owner. I imagine the equivalent EU law has similar requirements. CloudFlare uses legal chicanery to try to subvert the DMCA by claiming that because they’re not the origin server, they’re not subj…

> At least the DMCA in the U.S. has guardrails: not just anyone can send a takedown demand for everything. The requester has identify the works and declare under penalty of perjury that they are operating on the behalf of the owner. You'd think so, but no. DMCA came into effect 28 years ago. All those decades, all those billions of takedowns, and you don't even need the fingers of one hand to count those who've been…

You might misunderstand what the law requires. The person making the complaint (demand) only has to declare under penalty of perjury that they represent the copyright holder. It does not require them, under penalty of perjury, to be correct about the underlying facts.

See 17 U.S.C. 512(c)(3)(A):

"(A) To be effective under this subsection, a notification of claimed infringement must be a written communication provided to the designated agent of a service provider that includes substantially the following: ...

"(vi) A statement that the information in the notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed."

In other words: someone issuing a notice of infringement relating to a Disney work must declare under penalty of perjury that they represent Disney. They don't have to declare under penalty of perjury that the work is in fact a Disney work, that the title is correct, that the use in question is not fair use, etc.

This would explain why you're not seeing what you expect to see.

Re: Tell HN: Docker pull fails in Spain due to football Cloudflare block

#280

Post by miki123211 »

the_gipsy wrote: post #57
danirod wrote: post #30

Heh, lucky you, at least you get a message. My ISP just drops traffic to the affected IPs. No ping, no traceroute, just a spinner in the browser until it says "page not found". Every response and comment from LaLiga, the football organization responsible for this, has been so far that this is a minor issue that only affects a few bunch of nerds who talk about "docker images" or "github repositories" or "whatever that…

It's ridiculous and wrong what LaLiga does. But it's also a weakeup call to consider ditching cloudflare's centralization.

The only reason this happens is because Cloudflare's centralization makes precise censorship impossible. That's bad in this particular case (as it results in over-broad censorship), but good in general, as it makes censorship harder.

Without Cloudflare, you can censor whatever you want. If you have the support of an (undemocratic) government on your side, you can even DeDoS them, making sure that information critical of you cannot see the light of day.

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