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Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

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Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#271

Post by scoofy »

BeetleB wrote: post #254
order-matters wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The entire point though is that they won't get built where they are taxed I dont think this is entirely true. Maybe not the first wave of data centers, but there are a lot of factors that go into the cost calc and its possible that it would still be worth it to build them even if taxed.

He's not saying it's economically unfeasible to build where taxed. He's saying they'll simply build elsewhere where they won't be taxed. About a decade ago, a bunch of data center companies got fantastic deals with my city (low/no tax). People are pretty upset about it. A few years in there was a report on how many people they employeed. I think combined it was under 10 who lived in the area.

I mean, just look at what happened with Foxconn in Racine, WI: https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/what-happened-to-foxco...

The community is a heck of a lot poorer now because they were convinced to offer incentives for a factory that never came. Once these firms can dangle hope in return for tax treatment or infrastructure, then you have a zero-sum game between townships where the winner — if there is a winner — ends up being the firm first, and the loser — if there is a loser, will be the township first.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#272

Post by harimau777 »

lbarrow wrote: post #17

For people who support this kind of ban, I'd ask if you would support a similar ban on new factories for, say, car parts. Like data centers, factories use a lot of power -- which drives up electricity bills -- and their construction can have local environmental impacts. Data centers have a reputation for not providing too many local jobs, but modern factories are often highly automated and also don't provide too many…

Several reasons:

AI seems like it would advance the power of the capitalist class over labor more than new factories.

AI is allied with the tech oligarch faction which has allied itself with the fascists.

Datacenter manufacturers seem to have, at least lately, been particularly underhanded in their attempts to force themselves upon communities that don't want them.

If they fail (e.g. due to the AI bubble bursting or a recession), a factory seems like it would be more likely to survive or at least leave a facility and equipment that is useful.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#273

Post by butvacuum »

MattSteelblade wrote: post #168
swarnie wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine the additional space needed to power a scaled DC with solar. I think the number of people opposing the construction would increase when they release its half the county. But what's an extra 500 acres between friends.

A Technology Connections video recently changed my opinion on this. The land required to power the entire U.S. would be less than the farmland we currently use for ethanol production.

Alec presented it well- but we don't even need to take his word for it.

The Department of Energy has all the data available, so do a dozen different other private and public institutions. It didn't click for me till I ran some napkin math.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#274

Post by pj_mukh »

slabity wrote: post #33
lbarrow wrote: post #17

For people who support this kind of ban, I'd ask if you would support a similar ban on new factories for, say, car parts. Like data centers, factories use a lot of power -- which drives up electricity bills -- and their construction can have local environmental impacts. Data centers have a reputation for not providing too many local jobs, but modern factories are often highly automated and also don't provide too many…

> modern factories are often highly automated and also don't provide too many local jobs. The factories in Maine employ thousands of people. Bath Iron Works alone has over 7k employees. The Lewiston datacenter that was planned to be built was expected to employ less than 30.

"We are for the jobs the comet provides" - Don't Look up.

I'm not trying to be facile here but let's be honest the environmental concerns are silly. I don't want to hear about electricity shortages from a state hellbent on NIMBY-ing itself out of power[1],[2].

I understand people are threatened by this technology, the tech CEOs' loud pronouncements can cause that and that these arguments are basically threat responses. I buy that. But to hear otherwise smart people say non-chemical industrial factories are a serious environmental threat but if they provided more jobs it would be fine while everyone nods along, feels like I'm living in an Adam McKay satire.

[1]: https://www.mainepublic.org/politics/2025-04-08/bill-removin...

[2]: https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/maine-voters-reject-q...

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#275

Post by kube-system »

SamDc73 wrote: post #253
kube-system wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't necessary to evenly distribute industry across the entire country out of pettiness. Maine doesn't tell Iowa they should grow their own lobsters, they simply trade them.

I don't know if I get you're points because lobster farms are tied to certain external factors in a way things like data centers aren’t. but either way, the argument feels very NIMBY: it’s not ‘no housing,’ it’s ‘just not here.’ so when someone say ‘let someone else host them,’ it really comes across as: I want the internet, just let other communities pay the environmental cost.

The cost of running a datacenter and the impact it has is also tied to external factors. The environmental cost is not the same in all locations. There are differences in land use, environmental requirements, power generation methods, and the downstream impact of all of those.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#276

Post by justonceokay »

marcosdumay wrote: post #211
johnsimer wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI is incredibly useful for the entire population

Is that why the US's GDP is currently booming into infinity? Or is it only responsible for their unprecedented median standard of living?

You don’t understand it hasn’t trickled down yet

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#277

Post by Acrobatic_Road »

bdangubic wrote: post #245
Acrobatic_Road wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They sure have a right to enact policies that keep them economically & demographically irrelevant. https://cdn.xcancel.com/pic/orig/638FA4CD35438/media%2FF5jNt...

Data Centers would have made them sooooooo rich, very silly policies indeed, they’d be swimming in money

It's emblematic of Maine's wider anti-business and anti-growth climate which may explain why the state now has the highest median age in the US and one of the lowest fertility rates of any state.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#278

Post by JuniperMesos »

> The bill gained traction after residents in Wiscasset and Lewiston successfully opposed data center proposals over water usage and safety concerns.

"Water usage" and especially "safety" are bullshit arguments against building new data centers - in particular the idea that data centers use a lot of water was popularized by the freelance prestige journalist Karen Hao, who got a lot of her facts egregiouly, sloppily wrong in her reporting about AI data centers. This is either retarded environmentalism unconcerned with facts; or the actual motivation to prevent data center construction is some kind of more nebulous distrust of big tech or AI companies or concern that AI will take people's jobs.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#279

Post by harimau777 »

j2kun wrote: post #221
slabity wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> modern factories are often highly automated and also don't provide too many local jobs. The factories in Maine employ thousands of people. Bath Iron Works alone has over 7k employees. The Lewiston datacenter that was planned to be built was expected to employ less than 30.

My favorite class of HN comment: bringing concreteness to a vibes fight.

Perhaps unfortunately, vibes are part of being human. Ignore them at your peril.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#280

Post by harimau777 »

km3r wrote: post #19
lbarrow wrote: post #17

For people who support this kind of ban, I'd ask if you would support a similar ban on new factories for, say, car parts. Like data centers, factories use a lot of power -- which drives up electricity bills -- and their construction can have local environmental impacts. Data centers have a reputation for not providing too many local jobs, but modern factories are often highly automated and also don't provide too many…

Why not just require factories /data centers invest in solar/wind/renewables to cover their power usage. Banning is so childish when there is easy solutions.

Can we trust them to actually do it? Not to find some loophole? Or to wait until they are established and then lobby to have the requirement removed?
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