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Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

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Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#271

Post by [deleted] »

Rick76 wrote: post #90
zerr wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The grass is always greener on the other side - many low-level programmers feel like an imposter when it comes to high-level systems such as CRUD apps.

Can confirm, my buddy who is someone I respect immensely, is an embedded programmer. He will talk about OS events, or any low level concept and it makes me feel like I don’t know anything, but he acts like I’m a genius if I talk about JavaScript Runtimes, browser engines, anything frontend. It’s cool he teaches me new things, I teach him some

[deleted]

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#272

Post by johnebgd »

Discordian93 wrote: post #257
da_chicken wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, people forget that MS Office, and Excel and Outlook in particular, are the real foundation of Microsoft's vendor lock-in on the desktop.

Outlook is now basically an Electron app, they've deprecated the old desktop Outlook in favor of a port of the web app to desktop, so it's basically just Excel remaining.

Electron apps also basically don’t work in Wine. I miss having Evernote on Linux.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#273

Post by Fnoord »

xattt wrote: post #249
spoiler wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, early wine (when I first tried it) wasn't very usable, and for gaming specifically. So if you were an early enthusiast adopter, you might've just experienced their growing pains. Also, I assume some Windows version jumps didn't make things easy for Wine either lol

The hype/performance mismatch was significant in the 2000s for Wine. I’m not sure if there was any actual use case aside from running obscure business software. Yes, there was “the list” but there was no context and it was hard to replicate settings. I think everyone tried running a contemporary version of Office and Photoshop, saw the installer spit out cryptic messages and just gave up. Enough time has passed with…

I ran Wine end of 90s to run CS (Half-Life), and I had not only more FPS than Windows. It was more stable as well.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#274

Post by aaronbrethorst »

xattt wrote: post #249
spoiler wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, early wine (when I first tried it) wasn't very usable, and for gaming specifically. So if you were an early enthusiast adopter, you might've just experienced their growing pains. Also, I assume some Windows version jumps didn't make things easy for Wine either lol

The hype/performance mismatch was significant in the 2000s for Wine. I’m not sure if there was any actual use case aside from running obscure business software. Yes, there was “the list” but there was no context and it was hard to replicate settings. I think everyone tried running a contemporary version of Office and Photoshop, saw the installer spit out cryptic messages and just gave up. Enough time has passed with…

Red Box: https://lowendmac.com/1997/red-box-blue-box-yellow-box/

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#275

Post by HWR_14 »

sdenton4 wrote: post #270
owaislone wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really is impressive. I wish publishers like EA and anti-cheat developers weren't so reluctant to support it. I hope Steam devices and SteamOS gain enough traction to force their hands.

Idk, kernel anti cheat is a pretty clear sign to me that I should pick a different game to play anyway...

Does windows make it easy to tell the installer wants to install kernel anti cheat? It used to pop up the generic binary "This application wants to change files on your computer" which could be installing in the protected "Program Files" or could be modifying anything.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#276

Post by dwattttt »

gpderetta wrote: post #188
trentnelson wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WaitForMultipleObjects is fascinating behind the scenes. A single thread can wait on up to 64 independent events, which is done by plumbing the KTHREAD data structure with literally 64 slots for dispatcher header stuff, plus all the supporting Ke/dispatcher logic in the kernel. There’s never been a POSIX equivalent to this. It requires sophisticated kernel support and the exact same parity can’t be achieved in user s…

This comes up often, but what can it do that poll can't?

Reading the link provided by https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47511778, I believe "atomically acquire multiple objects". The link states they try to emulate it by performing a poll then a read, but the gap between those results in a race, which is a terrible thing to have in a synchronisation primitive.

There was also something about needing to back out if any of the reads fails to acquire, which also sounds nasty.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#277

Post by duskwuff »

simoncion wrote: post #263
senfiaj wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

16-bit software won't run natively in 64-bit mode. It requires some programmatic emulator, like DosBox. Or am I missing something?

The thing that you're missing is that Microsoft used to ship that emulator with Windows. Then they stopped doing that. AFAICT, Wine can run WIN16 programs. I don't know if it can run DOS programs. There's a WineHQ wiki page that says it can load DOS programs, but various internet fora seem to believe that Wine's DOS support is pretty broken. I've never tried it, and have no DOS programs handy, so I can't verify those…

"DOS support" is tricky inasmuch as a lot software from that era - especially larger and more complex packages - interacted with hardware directly. In a sense, they weren't really DOS applications so much as they were bare-metal PC applications which were booted from DOS. It'd be difficult for WINE to support those, and other projects like DOSbox / 86box / etc do a better job of it.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#280

Post by anakaine »

ACS_Solver wrote: post #162
computomatic wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I avoided using Wine (and Linux for gaming generally) for years on the sole basis that I assumed what they were trying to do was impossible to do well. Occasionally I’d try wine for some simple game and be impressed it worked at all, but refused to admit to myself that it was something I could rely on. (This was many years ago and I freely admit today that I was wrong.)

Valve's Proton (so Wine + DXVK + some other additions) revolutionized gaming on Linux. I play games both for fun and work, and for a solid 3+ years now, gaming on Linux has been an "it just works" experience for me, and should be for most games that don't use kernel-level anticheat.

By and large Im happy to not participate in games that use kernel level anti-cheat.
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