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What young workers are doing to AI-proof themselves

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271–280 of 418 posts

Re: What young workers are doing to AI-proof themselves

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how it works in the US, but in some parts of Europe, blue collar trades are currently much better, for several reasons: - Price of housing and associated maintenance keeps rising, and so do small jobs like fixing plumbing, gardening, etc; - You can easily avoid paying VAT if you know how to, so that's a 20% increase, or even more, if you can benefit from social services (e.g. since you don't earn a lot, you…

Is it actually true that the savings on home maintenance and social services offsets the higher salaries of white collar work? That's kind of crazy if it's true. In the US, you can make pretty good money in the trades, but generally, there are many caveats - you have to be your own boss, preferably with a few employees; you pay your own benefits; you don't get any paid leave; and depending on the trade, you could be…

Yes. It’s relatively straightforward to work on a fixer upper house during which time you are drawing no salary relative to that, and then you can turn around and sell it (or just enjoy being in a nice house which otherwise would have cost hundreds of thousands).

Re: What young workers are doing to AI-proof themselves

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your model of reality includes imminent human extinction, you have some form of imperative to do something about that other than “ZOMG Claude Code”. YMMV

Are you saying that the comment _supported_ human extinction? I think they're just saying they think it's a likely outcome. It doesn't appear to be an endorsement. Personally, I think there's a worryingly high chance that ourselves or our kids will live in a dead, desertified, apocalyptic hellscape of a planet after we hit 5+ degrees of warming, but saying that doesn't mean I _want_ it to happen. In fact, I would pre…

Pro-extinctionism (in favor of some “greater conciousness” that spreads across the stars) is a nontrivial minority view among AI people, including some “AI safety” leaders.

One of the reasons that I’m slightly less worried about a climate apocalypse is that there isn’t an equivalent group of people that sees the “inevitability” and concludes that it must be a moral good for the planet to warm 5 degrees. I’d argue that multiple degrees of warming is more inevitable than paperclips, but there’s a serious global effort to mitigate and avoid it anyway!

Re: What young workers are doing to AI-proof themselves

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If elites do not provide a social safety net why would the masses respect their elite status and resource endowments anyway? Unless you are suggesting billionaires build private armies in some sort of neo feudalism, there are no elites who are not dependant on the existing social structure.

Private companies literally are building drone armies right now. Are you sure their use will be limited to Ukraine and the Middle East?

Yeah that's why my argument is us proles cannot wait for rock bottom, we have to get these guys now

Re: What young workers are doing to AI-proof themselves

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how it works in the US, but in some parts of Europe, blue collar trades are currently much better, for several reasons: - Price of housing and associated maintenance keeps rising, and so do small jobs like fixing plumbing, gardening, etc; - You can easily avoid paying VAT if you know how to, so that's a 20% increase, or even more, if you can benefit from social services (e.g. since you don't earn a lot, you…

> - You can easily avoid paying VAT if you know how to, so that's a 20% increase You mean by how VAT is not paid on materials a company is going to use (at least that's the case here in France, no idea what the rest of the UE does it). Or by doing undeclared work?

Doing undeclared work.

Just had it happen to a friend: needed a plumber, impossible to find anything reliable (no one in town knows of a reliable plumber; it's a rare find). All Google Maps results contained lots of paid 5-star reviews (ratings with a full, typo-less phrase, praising the company in very generic terms, and the only review for that profile), so he had to pick one of them anyway.

Guy shows up, doesn't present a quote before doing the work (mandatory for >150€), does a mess but fixes the issue in less than 30 minutes, bills 200€, or 250€ if you want a receipt. No paperwork whatsoever, and in a position to physically harm you or do damage to your home if you refuse. And that's a "good" one. Locksmiths that charge 500€ or more for 10-minute jobs are a dozen a legion.

Then, these same people start buying cheap houses here and there, and in 20 years they'll be worth so much money that they'll become rich landlords and live on rent alone.

Several friends during PhD were renting cheap apartments whose owners were truck drivers, electricians, etc.

The point is, concentration of wealth and never-ending property values going up is only going to make becoming renter a better and better deal. And every profession that caters to renters is going to get some share of that money.

Re: What young workers are doing to AI-proof themselves

#275

Specialized shoemakers lost their jobs to generic shoe factory workers but there is more shoe consumption than ever before in history. LLMs like manufacturing will multiply the coding throughput. Likely the mythical 10x swe will not be as valuable, but the work expectation from anyone in the field will just multiply.

"More demand for software engineers but they are all less skilled and less paid than before" is not exactly the outcome I'm hoping for, personally

Re: What young workers are doing to AI-proof themselves

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that the comment _supported_ human extinction? I think they're just saying they think it's a likely outcome. It doesn't appear to be an endorsement. Personally, I think there's a worryingly high chance that ourselves or our kids will live in a dead, desertified, apocalyptic hellscape of a planet after we hit 5+ degrees of warming, but saying that doesn't mean I _want_ it to happen. In fact, I would pre…

Pro-extinctionism (in favor of some “greater conciousness” that spreads across the stars) is a nontrivial minority view among AI people, including some “AI safety” leaders. One of the reasons that I’m slightly less worried about a climate apocalypse is that there isn’t an equivalent group of people that sees the “inevitability” and concludes that it must be a moral good for the planet to warm 5 degrees. I’d argue tha…

Yeah it’s a big issue, I just don’t read the comment you’re objecting to as supporting that.

I mean I might think oil prices will go up but still choose not to buy oil stocks for moral reasons.

Re: What young workers are doing to AI-proof themselves

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - You can easily avoid paying VAT if you know how to, so that's a 20% increase You mean by how VAT is not paid on materials a company is going to use (at least that's the case here in France, no idea what the rest of the UE does it). Or by doing undeclared work?

Doing undeclared work. Just had it happen to a friend: needed a plumber, impossible to find anything reliable (no one in town knows of a reliable plumber; it's a rare find). All Google Maps results contained lots of paid 5-star reviews (ratings with a full, typo-less phrase, praising the company in very generic terms, and the only review for that profile), so he had to pick one of them anyway. Guy shows up, doesn't p…

> Doing undeclared work

> No paperwork whatsoever

> in a position to physically harm you or do damage to your home if you refuse

So it's not "blue vs white collar jobs"; it's being a law abiding citizen or not.

I know a lot of people who matches what you're talking about, but they all have in common to have their own interpretation of the law. There's not a single thing they do by the books.

They're just "blue collar crooks".

Of course they can "win" if they cheat.

Re: What young workers are doing to AI-proof themselves

#278
The industrial revolution is coming for white collar work. I'm finding Marx more and more relevant these days:

"So soon as the handling of this tool becomes the work of a machine, then, with the use-value, the exchange-value too, of the workman’s labour-power vanishes; the workman becomes unsaleable, like paper money thrown out of currency by legal enactment. That portion of the working-class, thus by machinery rendered superfluous, i.e., no longer immediately necessary for the self-expansion of capital, either goes to the wall in the unequal contest of the old handicrafts and manufactures with machinery, or else floods all the more easily accessible branches of industry, swamps the labour-market, and sinks the price of labour-power below its value."[0]

[0]: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch15.htm

Re: What young workers are doing to AI-proof themselves

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> prices will have to come down Prices of services will come down. Prices of things that require natural resources will go up. In a hypothetical world where let's say we have AIs that can do any human job more effectively than a human, rich people who can afford to control the AIs will control society and poor people who have nothing to offer economically will live in poverty. A good proxy for our future is Angola: a…

That's a generic problem with oil states. Or, more generally, where most income is generated by some centralized industry with strong government involvement. See "Dutch disease".[1] It's a strange situation in which having high income from valuable resources ends up making a state less industrial, and usually both more corrupt and poorer. Is AI going to do this? Quite possibly. One of the symptoms is most investment…

This is something I've wondered for a long time. Does a software state become more like an oil state, or more like an industrial state?

Re: What young workers are doing to AI-proof themselves

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes-Anding you, if one developer is suddenly 3x more productive and does 40 hours of work in 15 with AI tools, any reasonable manager would still want the same three people to keep working at 3x productivity. I don’t see Keynes’ theory we would all be working drastically fewer hours per week suddenly materializing due to AI. As always we’re just going to try to output more in the same time. The fact I, a manager, can…

You need paying customers for whatever those developers are producing. If your market size is relatively fixed, you don't need three people anymore. Look at it this way: if there really was a 3x market potential, why wouldn't that manager have hired six more people already?

No because you have the customers and budget in that moment for three already and I’m not interjecting that more budget is given or any taken away.

Restated, I’m not saying we’re hiring more or less because of LLM AI productivity changes. I’m rejecting the idea we need less people for all the previous reasons stated and my own two cents that we’re yet to see the reduced work hours Keynesian economics predicted as output per hour increased. We humans just keep working the same hours even if that hour is massively more productive.

This last point is well studied and not my own original thought. I’m just poorly regurgitating college level Macro Economics.

My own point I’ll add here is we’re not seeing companies bragging about their two day work weeks.

My personal experience with layoffs is that it’s all been financial engineering and the lack of nearly free financing that we had in the 2010s, again in the Pandemic, CapEx tax changes last year, and/or over hiring similar to but not nearly as massive as Google and Facebook. I worked for a European company that hired a dozen Americans to become more “US Tech Company” like and eventually let us all go two years ago once the fun money ran out when rates increased. They did a little bit of the AI babbling but realistically they couldn’t get the financing to keep it all rolling.

The companies reducing to one developer for a product are likely not doing this because of LLM AI work but likely will survive better because of it.

To your point, I’m actually living it and it’s nothing to do with AI. One of my teams was cut to 25% of its size a year ago and the whole QA team let go. Roughly this was an EBITA play. Basically the only way we get anything done is by doing what I mentioned in my earlier post where the front end dev uses LLMs to build a prototype backend they can use to support their front end expertise and the back end dev does the same for the front end. Eventually they meet in the middle and I can juggle some of the KTLO myself. Is this fun? Absolutely not. If we had the headcount back we’d be able to meet the ‘25-26 roadmap but instead we’re doing 40% of it.

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