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Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

hormuz.pythonic.ninja

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Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#271

Post by joe_mamba »

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #173
joe_mamba wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Destroying a school is not an "oopsie". You should see how many innocent people US's wars in Afghanistan and Iraq killed. And that's only the ones we know of before the era of smartphones and social media where people could more easily document war crimes. Did anyone go to jail for it? No. Will anyone go to jail for killing innocent people in Iran? Also no. Trump is gonna fuck some more shit up in the area, declare…

Miraculously by US standards, a couple of soldiers (though only a couple, by no means all who committed them) actually did face prison time for war crimes in Iraq, and were then pardoned by Trump because he can't settle for not being the most evil man on the planet: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/27/eddie-gallag...

Pardoning criminals is Trump's definition of patriotism. He would know what a criminal is.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#272

Post by applfanboysbgon »

mhb wrote: post #268
applfanboysbgon wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a matter of pragmatism. Even if I myself consider my perspective on good and evil to be objective, it is a given that each of my neighbors will have their own seemingly-objective sense of good and bad that differs from my own. We are then at an impasse. Do I attempt to kill all of my neighbors in order to rid the world of what I perceive to be evil? Or do I perhaps make peace with an imperfect world in which ba…

I don't know what to tell you. You're restating the paradox of tolerance. You should probably come to some philosophical resolution regarding that before you keep digging.

What I have said has nothing to do with the paradox of tolerance. I am firmly on the side of not tolerating the intolerant, but stating that, "not tolerating" does not extend to "starting wars in an attempt at world conquest to rid the world of the intolerant".

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#273

Post by 10xDev »

gruez wrote: post #261
10xDev wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>none of them would be advanced by bombing a girls school. no shit... this is not proof of a mistake.

>this is not proof of a mistake. The "proof" of the mistake is Hanlon's razor and the fact that the school was adjacent a military facility and the building itself used to be for military purposes.

Too consistent, too frequent, too precise to be explained away as "stupid": https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/ce9mz0gl8z7o

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#274

Post by mhb »

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #272
mhb wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what to tell you. You're restating the paradox of tolerance. You should probably come to some philosophical resolution regarding that before you keep digging.

What I have said has nothing to do with the paradox of tolerance. I am firmly on the side of not tolerating the intolerant, but stating that, "not tolerating" does not extend to "starting wars in an attempt at world conquest to rid the world of the intolerant".

If "not tolerating the intolerant" is not actionable, it is just mindless rhetoric.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#275

Post by lonelyasacloud »

flyinglizard wrote: post #91
malfist wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of "doing the right thing" is bombing an all girls school?

Do you think some evil military planners sat in the Pentagon, saw that school, said "let's shoot at it for shits and giggles" and pressed the button? Or are you trying to pollute a grown up conversation with sensationalism and punchy hooks? In reality someone made a mistake. It can happen. It should be investigated. It should not deter from achieving the military objectives.

> In reality someone made a mistake. It can happen. It should be investigated. It should not deter from achieving the military objectives.

There has been little planning and there are no sane military objectives beyond blow stuff up. How can there be when the objectives of the overall war change depend on what side of the bed Bone Spurs got out.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#276

Post by Waterluvian »

hakrgrl wrote: post #193
ykonstant wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

whatabout iran

The implication being what? "What about Iran" as if I don't think killing schoolchildren is terrible and shouldn't happen? You missed the entire point of my comment: to us it's a tragedy. To them it's a strategy. That's why we're bombing them in the first place. They are commiting genocide.

I think true competence of this subject matter is having the ability to comprehend that "it was an accident" or "they started it" score zero points. Simple minds wail for simple framings of deeply complicated situations, and Americans chose to elect simple minds. I think the U.S. has grappled for a long time with the growing chorus of simple mindedness, volunteering itself for wars that ultimately serve no outcome other than further destabilization. The tragedy of simple minds is their being unable to learn from these mistakes, let alone identify them as mistakes.

To put more simply: it doesn't matter what logic or reasoning there is. There are real, tangible consequences to killing 150 children with a cruise missile. The tragedy will be when simple minds understand those consequences as little more than, "it's because they're subhuman terrorists who hate America."

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#278

Post by applfanboysbgon »

trimethylpurine wrote: post #248
applfanboysbgon wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

??? Do most of your everyday life decisions involve starting wars or killing people? That's concerning. Are you a high-ranking officer in the US military? As it happens, I'm not, and my decisions do not typically have life-or-death consequences. I also don't even know what you're getting at. There was nothing "relativistic" or "morally grey" about my argument. My point is that in order for any kind of peace to exist,…

But if you're getting attacked for 4 decades by another country, do you do something about it or are you saying that's also wrong? My understanding is that the regime in Iran has been terrorizing around the world for decades. It's not just disagreeable. People are seeking justice. It's one thing to dislike another politician. No one needs justice for repugnancy. But if they are committing acts of terror, that's a tot…

The regime in the US has been terrorizing around the world for decades. Among many other things, it overthrew the democratic Iranian government to establish a puppet autocracy in Iran, leading directly to the current one after a revolution. The entire reason Iran funds terrorists that target the US is because the US is an existential threat to it. So your argument basically boils down to "if I shoot someone, and they shoot me back, am I not entitled to self-defense?". The actual answer is to stop shooting them. Stop fucking up the entire Middle East and the people from there won't hate a country across the world so much that they feel a worthwhile use of their life is to strap a bomb to themselves in order to kill people from there.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#280

Post by gruez »

10xDev wrote: post #273
gruez wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>this is not proof of a mistake. The "proof" of the mistake is Hanlon's razor and the fact that the school was adjacent a military facility and the building itself used to be for military purposes.

Too consistent, too frequent, too precise to be explained away as "stupid": https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/ce9mz0gl8z7o

From the description:

>Footage from Russian state broadcaster RT has captured the moment a missile lands just a few feet from where its reporter was broadcasting in southern Lebanon.

What's this supposed to be proof of? That because a bombing happened near a journalist, that he must have been intentionally targeted? Does the US even have capabilities to track journalists in Iran, of all places? Given that journalists are specifically going into war zones, what even is the expected amount of journalists to get bombed, from pure chance alone?

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