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Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

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Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#271

Post by pjmlp »

scheeseman486 wrote: post #214
wildredkraut wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just some of the so many reasons why the "Year of the Linux Desktop" will never see the light. Linux is doomed to run mainly headless on a dark chamber hardware. As always when the Linux Desktop is just starting to take off, somebody comes up with a new great self destructive idea(wayland), it always has been like that and probably will never change.

Wayland is why Steam Deck is a product. Gamescope, the compositor it uses for all the features that makes it compelling to buy, uses it and it's features heavily. Desktop Linux was never going to go anywhere stuck on X. Wayland is happening, it's currently going through it's trial by fire and in the end (and for a lot of people, right now) it'll be better for it. It's easy to say Wayland has been around forever and b…

Steam Deck is a product thanks to Windows developers, that feed Proton with content.

Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#272

Post by scheeseman486 »

pjmlp wrote: post #271
scheeseman486 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wayland is why Steam Deck is a product. Gamescope, the compositor it uses for all the features that makes it compelling to buy, uses it and it's features heavily. Desktop Linux was never going to go anywhere stuck on X. Wayland is happening, it's currently going through it's trial by fire and in the end (and for a lot of people, right now) it'll be better for it. It's easy to say Wayland has been around forever and b…

Steam Deck is a product thanks to Windows developers, that feed Proton with content.

Huh, didn't know that all the Windows developers at Microsoft made all the Windows games. Super cool.

Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#273

Post by ehnto »

Pxtl wrote: post #201
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a pox that such an old slow moving distro as Mint somehow is people's first port of call. I don't know how this happened, how Mint rooted itself so well (in 2006 it was fresh!), but this perception that you should use the slowest moving oldest possible dustiest Linux is the best possible thing Microsoft and Apple could spread to convince the world to believe. If you are going to jump into Linux, dont sell yourse…

In my experience Mint still has the smoothest process for Nvidia drivers, making it the first suggestion for gamers. And Snap causes some embarrassing bugs in Firefox in the Ubuntu family, so people thinking "I want an Ubuntu-like OS but without Canonical's mistakes" still gravitate to Mint.

EndeavourOS works really well in this regard. It also smoothes out working with Arch without being too opinionated.

It was a GUI install, defaults to KDE Plasma, auto installs and manages the graphics drivers. Very smooth, better than Windows install in most ways.

Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#275

Post by teo_zero »

whynotmaybe wrote: post #140
dehrmann wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I actually think it's nice to have both Options that are equivalent enough for most end users just cause confusion. There are also too many distros, and the Gnome vs. KDE competition set desktop Linux back another 10 years. That's three dimensions of big, important choices with not much downside if you pick the happy path and a whole lot of downside if you don't.

I don't know what's the difference between x11, wayland, gnome, kde and all the others. The fact that people always debate over which one is best is one of the reason why I don't switch to Linux desktop. Theres always the sane debate of Macos VS Windows VS Linux. That's a good one for me because there are many pros and cons for each of them. But then, when you try to really look into Linux, it's an unstoppable flow o…

> this perpetual debate over which is the best only tricks me into believing that whichever distro I'd choose, it will be the wrong one.

What a bizarre conclusion to draw! Why don't you believe that whichever distro you choose, it will be way better than what you have now?

Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#276

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

happymellon wrote: post #266
Ferret7446 wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of distros that have xlibre packages for something that ostensibly doesn't compile. I wouldn't trust the reason given by the people who have said that they're trying to kill Xorg for why they're rejecting patches from someone trying to improve Xorg

> There are a lot of distros that have xlibre packages for something that ostensibly doesn't compile. No one says xlibre doesn't compile, but good attempt at a distraction. Have you considered invading a country as an alternative way to distract from terrible views?

> No one says xlibre doesn't compile

>> A guy decided that after getting all his patches rejected because they cause tests to fail, doesn't compile, etc. that the problem is everyone else and decided to fork XOrg.

Emphasis mine, words yours.

Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#277

Post by Mawr »

jasoneckert wrote: post #40

In short, this reads like a mix of valid historical pain points and outdated assumptions. The post frames Wayland security as “you can’t do anything,” but that’s a misunderstanding. Even under X11, any app can log keystrokes, read window contents, and inject input into other apps. Wayland flips this to isolation-by-default: explicit portals/APIs for screen capture, input, etc. Moreover, the performance argument is we…

This reads like AI/FSD-bro speak: "no, that's all old news, you clearly haven't tried the new cutting edge model/build bro! it's all fixed now!".

> Wayland security

Okay, that's great, but why would I care? If you can implement those security wins transparently in the background, cool. Otherwise, what I care about is being able to take a screenshot, not about some theoretical "security threat" from already vetted programs I run on my machine.

> OBS, clipboard, and screen sharing issues are now mostly (if not entirely) solved in the latest GNOME/KDE.

Oh, the clipboard works mostly correctly now, after some 17 years of development? Could not have come up with a more damning statement. Complete misalignment of priorities.

Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#278

Post by pjmlp »

wildredkraut wrote: post #105
renewiltord wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decades of using Linux desktops and nothing has ever changed hahaha. Users still complain things don’t work. Fans still say “oh what a first world problem”. Like a little 2004 era time loop. People still installing Dapper Drake. Haha. In the time that people have been talking about the Wayland future to today where they’re still talking about it I have lived in 3 continents, met my wife and had a child, and experienc…

Fully agree, same here. It's just sad to keep watching this, because now just after approx. 15 years i started to evaluate the Linux Desktop again and it failed again. Many professional software like Maya, Houdini, Unreal, etc. that used to run great on Linux/X11, now sucks on wayland. Some are hyping Linux for the subpar gaming compatibility, while for GameDev Windows is still required. In 15 years I'll try again, b…

Or they say it isn't, but then from which OS are the games that make using Proton a requirement?

They aren't targeting Linux, they are targeting Windows Game Developers Kit, even when the engine is actually cross platform.

Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#279

Post by DonHopkins »

kibwen wrote: post #192
Ferret7446 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect part of that is the Xorg maintainers (who are also behind Wayland efforts) are actively trying to kill it and make it as unbearable as possible

It's all open-source. If you think the maintainers are trying to sabotage the codebase, you have the freedom to fork it.

[dead]

Re: Wayland set the Linux Desktop back by 10 years?

#280

Post by Mawr »

tapoxi wrote: post #96
xbar wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It reads like a user that tried Wayland again last week, found the same issues and wrote a piece that tried to summarize why they remain sad after 17 years of waiting for Wayland to address its issues.

There is no "Wayland" to address these issues. It's like asking "web" to address its issues. Wayland is a protocol with multiple different implementations.

Could you briefly explain in simple terms, why I as a user would care about any of that? I want stuff to work. With Wayland, it largely doesn't. I don't terribly care about the semantics of it.
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