Well if you want to ensure there person in front of a machine at that time is actually above certain age the only way to do it is to reveal their identity. Of couese one could imagine a cryptographic scheme where only a binary true comes back etc. but you could sell these like fake IDs to minors.
Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults
271–280 of 371 posts
Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults
#272The EU is rolling out the EUDI system this year where citizens can verify their age (>16, >18, >21) without revealing any personal information. This is a solved problem over there.
According to the EU Identity Wallet's documentation, the EU's planned system requires highly invasive age verification to obtain 30 single use, easily trackable tokens that expire after 3 months. It also bans jailbreaking/rooting your device, and requires GooglePlay Services/IOS equivalent be installed to "prevent tampering". You have to blindly trust that the tokens will not be tracked, which is a total no-go for privacy.
These massive privacy issues have all been raised on their Github, and the team behind the wallet have been ignoring them.
Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults
#273[flagged]
> HN seems to defend freedom to contact children without restrictions.
You are intentionally lying about what people are angry about here, which is the exact opposite the "balanced" discussion you want. Age verification violates the privacy of adults, which is why people hate it. To claim otherwise, is incorrect.
Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults
#274Man... How did yall white Westerners turn out to be the weakest people in the world? You were supposed to be the bastions of freedom and justice, and the rest of the world begrudgingly admired you for that and were slowly improving to become like you, but ever since 9/11/2001 the rich old people that rule you have been feeding you boogeymen to make you their complacent b*tches and you lay down and crawl along and acc…
We never were? Neoliberal freedom never constituted strength nor is companies having the general public by the balls a new thing here.
Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults
#275[flagged]
> If you want a better proposal bring technical expertise to the discussion instead of ideology fundamentalism. Fine. All we need is a password-protected toggle in each app that enables child mode, and another toggle in the phone settings that locks app installation/uninstallation. Remote verification schemes are completely unnecessary. For details see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47273612 The way people are…
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Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
> there will need to be trust at some point in the system This is why you don't have a technologically effective solution, here. "Trust" in this situation is a weasel word for surveillance, just like the pinkie promise that Client Side Scanning would never be abused by the government. Trust would not stop child abuse, or meaningfully prevent access to online pornography. Trust is not a technical solution, it's a poli…
> "Trust" in this situation is a weasel word for surveillance Is all security a weasel word for surveillance? You answer a valid argument with a meme. It is very unproductive. How do you suggest to disallow children access to pornography, harmful content, etc? Or are you arguing that any solution is worse than the harm that bad actors in search of money and political gain are doing to children?
> Is all security a weasel word for surveillance?
If the security asks you to "trust them"? Yeah, that's usually pretext for hidden abuse.
When the Wizard of Oz says "pay no attention to the man behind that curtain" then you don't look the other way. Trust is unnecessary in situations where transparency is demanded. Accepting "trust" is equivalent to accepting every single abuse of the technology, up to and including using age verification to facilitate child abuse. Do you really "trust" the internet to use this power for good alone?
> How do you suggest to disallow children access to pornography, harmful content, etc?
Stop leaving them unattended in front of the TV. It worked in the 1980s, it still works with the iPad (gasp! screen time?).
This whole argument reeks of the Catholic moms protesting HBO, desperate to make themselves the victim. Bad parenting is not the TV network's problem. You cannot contort it into a working argument or legitimate ethical quandary. The solitary reason we see age verification pushed so hard is to promote online surveillance. If you want to enrich and entertain your kids without exposing them to topics you consider unsavory, buy them a book instead of an iPad. It's not rocket science.
Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults
#277Man... How did yall white Westerners turn out to be the weakest people in the world? You were supposed to be the bastions of freedom and justice, and the rest of the world begrudgingly admired you for that and were slowly improving to become like you, but ever since 9/11/2001 the rich old people that rule you have been feeding you boogeymen to make you their complacent b*tches and you lay down and crawl along and acc…
When you take a high trust society and then endlessly lie to the people, what exactly are you expecting to happen? Serious question here, we are under direct assault from the "elites" here and we are clearly shell-shocked and not yet dealing with it.
Many of us are open to suggestion. But if all you're going to do is call us bitches, then shut the fuck up. Wanna help? Cool, I'm willing to accept it. Maybe try that.
Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
China has much lower crime, cheaper healthcare and is making progress in other aspects. We’re rapidly regressing into prideful ignorance. People are being encouraged to drink raw milk and fear vaccines. 19 century illnesses are making a resurgence. Citizens are being indefinitely detained for “looking” like immigrants.
> China has much lower crime, cheaper healthcare and is making progress in other aspects. China is also a horrifying place to live unless you are content just to participate quietly in society and never put a political sign in your yard or even just talk about the wrong thing with your friend in a private WeChat. https://reclaimthenet.org/china-man-chair-interrogation-soci...
I mean such is life for anyone who is not a full-blown citizen of the United States. If you speak bad of the current administration or its allies expect to be punished extrajudicially
Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
Europe is not an ancient civilization. It is a continent and politically, an amalgamation. Most of the "Western" civilizations old enough to attempt comparison with China were not European in the modern sense at all. The classic example is usually Rome, which treated most of Europe as barbarians to colonize and enslave. The engine and wealth of the empire was along the Mediterranean. Ancient Rome was thus really a Me…
The power of Rome and the influence of Greece means that modern Europe's culture was shaped by Greece and Rome, and by Christianity. The Roman Empire covered much of Europe about 2000 years ago, and those places have had a great deal of cultural continuity since then.
Simply incorrect. Get a map of modern Europe and Rome at that time. Then plot not only the Roman territory, but also population and flows of commerce. Compare.
It does not map to modern Europe. It encircles the Mediterranean with much of Europe either not included or on the periphery. Most of Europe was to the Romans barbarian hinterland 2000 years ago. Even at its greatest extent you will see Rome was always centered on the Mediterranean. The "West" would have been entirely alienated from said culture had the flame not been kept alive by the East when the West fell.
Re: Online age-verification tools for child safety are surveilling adults
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sob stories about children are always weaponized for oppression. It was used to bash interracial marriage, gay rights, suppress dissent, attack the first amendment, and now this. Whenever you hear some dramatic story involving kids about how you have to live a little less free, know the tactic.
Don’t forget the second amendment.
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