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Welcome (back) to Macintosh

take.surf

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Re: Welcome (back) to Macintosh

#271

Post by tpmoney »

lynndotpy wrote: post #268
tpmoney wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does it matter? It does matter if you're selling someone on the idea of switching away from their mac or windows machine that they're complaining about something the OS vendor has done by highlighting that with Linux they could "fix it themselves". It misses the point that most people don't want to "fix it themselves" and even if they had the inclination to that, for many problems they don't have the time or the sk…

Your comments really sound like you don't have experience with Linux. This sounds like you're repeating things others have heard. > it's more likely than not that they don't have those skills No, they absolutely do. Even at the most basic level of interacting with the OS, Linux desktops usually offer more options in its Settings application than you'd get with MacOS. If something annoys you on Linux, it probably anno…

> Your comments really sound like you don't have experience with Linux. This sounds like you're repeating things others have heard.

It's really disappointing to me that so many people assume that just because you're not convinced that linux is the right solution for every computer user that you don't have experience with the system. As I mentioned in my other reply to you, I have plenty of experience with Linux, and those experiences are why I say that Linux is just as "unfixable" to your average computer user as MacOS or Windows is.

Re: Welcome (back) to Macintosh

#272

Post by notsigolhp »

I've been a developer on Apple kit since 1982 and am coming to the conclusion that under Cook the company has lost its way. All too often the experience is as if I return to my home and find that, behind my back, someone has changed the lock on my front door and painted the house puse. My suggestion is for the company to provide 2 operating systems. One for kindergarten users, a toy that's locked down strictly within Apple's walled garden. The other OS which is for grownups, where stability and functional performance are paramount, with the user in control of their machine and where investment (in systems, digital activities, mental capital and muscle memory) are treated with the respect and value that they obviously have.

That Apple could force Tahoe on the world makes it obvious that company's inward looking arogance has drifted far out of touch with reality. Could there be a more efficient way to shoot themselves in the foot, and at the same time poke their customers in the eye.

Re: Welcome (back) to Macintosh

#273

Post by port11 »

wink wrote: post #265
port11 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m firmly anti-Tahoe and haven’t updated, and I’ve started to find Apple despicable. But… Anyone saying they had no trouble migrating away is either lying or delusional. Just off the top of my head: external accessory issues when Linux wakes up from sleep; trackpad quality; battery life; full-disk encryption is still spotty if you, for example, want to use ZFS; boot-level security can be a nightmare to setup (althou…

I don't remember ever having external accessory issues, I don't use a track pad, battery life is fine (although I will admit macs seem to do better) and the ZFS one is just odd. Literally first time I hear this because while it sure would be nice... everyone uses btrfs or xfs or even ext4 with FDE without any problems for the last.. 15 years? Just one FS apparently has some issues? Maybe your definition of broken is…

ZFS got me into a weird race condition with systemd trying to unlock different filesystems that it couldn’t find because the root system itself wasn’t ready. ZFS-on-root is itself not really recommended, but you work around that.

Re: Welcome (back) to Macintosh

#274

Post by oarsinsync »

mrbuttons454 wrote: post #83
stockresearcher wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From an outsider just going by what you wrote: you are trading a $2000+ year-old computer for a new $2000+ computer because you are annoyed about some temporary problems (yes, they are temporary). Apple marketers are just going to think that in another year you’re going to get annoyed by some Linux thing (yes, there will be something annoying) and buy a brand new $2000+ Mac. These kind of posts get a lot of upvotes,…

I've been running Debian on servers for 20+ years now. And in the last few years I've been running it on my desktop, sort of a toe in the water. Debian hasn't let me down, and I'm very familiar with it. I was on my way out the door before the Apple Silicon launch. They managed to briefly bring me back in, but the software is only getting worse. It's a shame too, because I do believe Apple has the best hardware.

> Debian hasn't let me down, and I'm very familiar with it. I was on my way out the door before the Apple Silicon launch. They managed to briefly bring me back in

Debian (courtesy of the Asahi project) still wont let you down if you’re using an M1 or M2:

https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Apple/M1

Re: Welcome (back) to Macintosh

#275

Post by oarsinsync »

tpmoney wrote: post #195
sivers wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for this very important point. It often gets lost in the discussion. The big idea with Linux/BSD/fully-open-source is that you can fix whatever you don't like. That was the breaking point for me with Tahoe. I never loved MacOS before that, but it never got in the way. Then with Tahoe, it got in the way, so I went to fix it, and found out that fixing it is actually impossible! That was the breakup moment. Sophi…

> The big idea with Linux/BSD/fully-open-source is that you can fix whatever you don't like. That's a great theory, and sometimes it's actually true, but in reality for most users most of the time, Linux is as "fixable" as Windows or macOS, because most people, even the technically savvy ones aren't driver developers. Heck most software developers probably aren't even C programmers anymore. And even if someone had th…

> > The big idea with Linux/BSD/fully-open-source is that you can fix whatever you don't like.

> That's a great theory, and sometimes it's actually true, but in reality for most users most of the time, Linux is as "fixable" as Windows or macOS, because most people, even the technically savvy ones aren't driver developers.

But there a whole lot more people who are happy to pay Claude $200/month now than there used to be. Claude isn’t a driver developer, but it’s taken a bunch of different open projects and modified for them for me in such a way that it’s made my life meaningfully better.

Things I couldn’t do for years, that I’ve wanted for years, got accomplished in 2 evenings: one to implement and deploy, one to optimise because the original deployment was a good POC but not good enough to keep running (e.g. doubling or tripling of CPU usage or RAM from prior to modification).

Sure, you could argue I’m paying a doctor, but there isn’t a doctor for the apple ecosystem. There’s just “suck it up, sunshine.”

(Written from my iPad, where I continue to suck it up)

Re: Welcome (back) to Macintosh

#276

Post by mrbuttons454 »

oarsinsync wrote: post #274
mrbuttons454 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been running Debian on servers for 20+ years now. And in the last few years I've been running it on my desktop, sort of a toe in the water. Debian hasn't let me down, and I'm very familiar with it. I was on my way out the door before the Apple Silicon launch. They managed to briefly bring me back in, but the software is only getting worse. It's a shame too, because I do believe Apple has the best hardware.

> Debian hasn't let me down, and I'm very familiar with it. I was on my way out the door before the Apple Silicon launch. They managed to briefly bring me back in Debian (courtesy of the Asahi project) still wont let you down if you’re using an M1 or M2: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Apple/M1

I have a couple of base model M1 Max studios that I will give this a try on!
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