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/e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

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Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#271

Post by bornfreddy »

well_ackshually wrote: post #53
goldenarm wrote: post #9

Tweaking user-hostile OSes into user-friendly ones is impressive, but not sustainable. Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. Look at the AdBlocker crackdown of Google Chrome. Every single chrome-fork has shut down MV2 extensions, even Brave is about to do it, because it is impossible to maintain features that complex on a browser that Google spends >$1B/year to develop. Same story for /e/ and…

>Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. There are zero OSes that are 1/ open source 2/ appropriate for phones 3/ with good hardware support. There's absolutely nothing. Running Ubuntu Touch isn't a viable option. Neither is postmarket, librem, tizen, they're all terrible. Security wise, for something as critically important in our lives as a smartphone, I am also not trusting any new pet projec…

What about Sailfish OS? I heard good things about it, but didn't dare switch... yet. Does anyone have some 1st hand experience?

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#273

Post by safety1st »

idiotsecant wrote: post #165
safety1st wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate that there are people out there working on stuff like /e/OS, but the number one question I have when I learn about a mobile OS that isn't iOS or "Googled" Android is: will the banking and payment apps I need to operate in the modern world run on this OS? A lot of people don't think this way because they haven't had any problems. But then one day it happens to you and you realize, ok, this is the one thin…

I promise your electric company accepts payments outside of an app on your phone. I further promise that other banks are available that don't have terrible apps. These problems are way more surmountable than you're painting them here.

The alternative they accept is traveling down to their office and handing them cash, no joke. Phone app or cash. No website, never has been one. No snail mail because they "modernized" and discontinued it some time ago.

But I'm OK because one of my banking apps has some method of reading my contract number from the disabled electricity company app, and telling me how much I should pay and then it fires off a payment to them. Even though I can no longer use the electricity app directly because I enabled USB debugging once, the banking app is somehow still able to pick up this info from it.

Of course, said banking app refuses to run on Graphene or any of these other Google Play-less OSes, and the bank doesn't respond to inquiries about that issue, multiple people have tried.

The other bank I use does respond, and says they'll never run on "alternative OSes" because "alternative OSes are too insecure." They don't respond to followups.

I'm just saying man. A lot of people think this stuff is trivially solved because there is an option available to them in their home country. You don't know how big and nuts this world of 8 billion people and 200 countries is. This stuff varies beyond imagination, sometimes for the much worse.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#274

Post by bornfreddy »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #229
abighamb wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it such a burden to write them a letter stating, "Because you have decided to disable my electronic access, I am notifying you that I withdraw my consent to e-delivery. Please provide me statements and directions to mail you a check for payment." Maybe spend 20-30 min to find the specific laws that give you the right to do that and remind them of their timelines to comply. Send a letter like that certified. It get…

Not everyone has the time and resources to battle their utilities and bank(s). I know it’s important and sustained effort is necessary even if it’s hard, but we are talking about massive populations here and most people simply can’t or won’t fight that battle on their own. Organizing a large pushback is also a huge effort. And at the end of the day, there is an easy solution for folks: buy a “proper” smart phone that…

Fighting for your rights is usually not the easy path, yes. It's been like that since forever.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#275

Post by OsrsNeedsf2P »

vovavili wrote: post #223
goldenarm wrote: post #9

Tweaking user-hostile OSes into user-friendly ones is impressive, but not sustainable. Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. Look at the AdBlocker crackdown of Google Chrome. Every single chrome-fork has shut down MV2 extensions, even Brave is about to do it, because it is impossible to maintain features that complex on a browser that Google spends >$1B/year to develop. Same story for /e/ and…

Extensions prior to MV3 were notoriously insecure and granted extension developers a very wide attack surface. Assuming that Google only has a sinister reason to switch to a better standard in an ecosystem riddled with ill-intentioned actors is a bit too cynical.

Google will only ever push major updates that are neutral or beneficial to their ad revenue. I do not believe they killed MV3 due to ad blockers, but it's the type of proposal that can survive at Google.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#276

Post by bornfreddy »

fsflover wrote: post #220
malka1986 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have exactly 0 choice of banks app that would run on a mobile OS that is neither android or google. At the end of the day, I need a bank account, and access to it, would it only be for buying food, or paying my mortgage.

If you're in Europe, I saw quite a few comments here saying that banks not requiring the duopoly do exist. Otherwise, a dedicated banking phone might be the way.

Actually, a dedicated banking phone is a good idea for security reasons too. No sure how many people are willing to carry around 2 phones though.

Too bad dual boot is not an option, or VMs.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#277

Post by nosioptar »

wolvoleo wrote: post #35
lpcvoid wrote: post #2

There's absolutely no reason to use /e/ when GrapheneOS exists. https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm

There is when you have a phone that isn't a pixel.

Graphene doesnt even support all usable pixels. My pixel 3a isn't supported, but is by eos, lineage, and mobian (if you don't need volte).

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#278

Post by bornfreddy »

vovavili wrote: post #223
goldenarm wrote: post #9

Tweaking user-hostile OSes into user-friendly ones is impressive, but not sustainable. Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. Look at the AdBlocker crackdown of Google Chrome. Every single chrome-fork has shut down MV2 extensions, even Brave is about to do it, because it is impossible to maintain features that complex on a browser that Google spends >$1B/year to develop. Same story for /e/ and…

Extensions prior to MV3 were notoriously insecure and granted extension developers a very wide attack surface. Assuming that Google only has a sinister reason to switch to a better standard in an ecosystem riddled with ill-intentioned actors is a bit too cynical.

No, it's not. They could easily have solved the problems without introducing changes to cripple ad blockers, but they decided their investors need some more cash. Actions speak.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#279

Post by goldenarm »

codethief wrote: post #253
goldenarm wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Copying my reply from below) Building and maintainance cost are not linear, especially when you inherit legacy code. The AOSP codebase isn't great, is 4x bigger than the Linux Kernel, and full of "Ship now, patch later" mess. But I agree that it is a significant endeavor. But the OSS community succeeded in similar projects before, and the current state of the Linux desktop makes me hopeful.

> Building and maintainance cost are not linear, especially when you inherit legacy code. The AOSP codebase isn't great, is 4x bigger than the Linux Kernel, and full of "Ship now, patch later" mess. And yet the GrapheneOS devs seem to be managing just fine. > But I agree that it is a significant endeavor. Yes, in fact it is orders of magnitude more significant an endeavor that just building upon and improving the exi…

My point was about hard forks, which GrapheneOS is not.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#280

Post by goldenarm »

Vinnl wrote: post #175
goldenarm wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are more OSS devs active on Android ROMs than OSS devs working on independent mobile OSes. We are running out of time, and we are misallocating ressources. It's like bailing out water from the Titanic. We should prepare the lifeboats instead.

And there are even more devs working on Windows. It's like we're actively drilling a hole into the Titanic. The thing is that those people aren't "resources" that you can just "reallocate". And even if they were, two extra buckets weren't going to save the Titanic.

Most engineers agree that Windows 11 is a Titanic situation.

And yes, people reallocate all the time, it's called a cultural shift, and it's healthy discussion to have.

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