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America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

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Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#271

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

telotortium wrote: post #240
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s almost impossible for an upper middle class couple to retire in the US before their 65 unless they have some type of government provided or private company provided health insurance like teachers, police officers, military etc. It’s about $25K a year for a decent plan which is doable. But you have to hope that Republicans - and yes this is a political issue - don’t successfully kill the ACA and make it impossibl…

For curiosity's sake, what exactly do you think Republicans will do to "kill the ACA"? I doubt they're going to introduce a bill that revokes the ACA in its entirety. They killed the mandate almost a decade ago and the marketplace healthcare plans have continued to limp along, depending on the state. What's next?

It’s simple. One of the original tenants of the ACA was to provide subsidies for most people earning up to what would be the upper middle class between this and the insurance mandates, it would prevent the death spiral where only the sick would sign up for it, making the cost go up until it was almost unaffordable to anyone and unprofitable for the insurance companies making them leave the exchange.

The first blow was when the Supreme Court killed the mandates. The second blow just happened when they killed the subsidies last year.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#272

Post by Retric »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #253
Retric wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some did. The US expat community has been quite large for decades. Most people didn’t do FIRE style early retirement while dealing with pre existing medical conditions. There however was plenty of expats pre ACA who very much left the country for early retirement. US healthcare is ruinously expensive but on average it’s not particularly good if you’re in the income bracket where 1/4 million over a few years is a seri…

There is absolutely no significant number of Americans who left without ties to other countries. I find it rich that Americans who leave the US call themselves “ex-pats” instead of “immigrants”

There’s over 1/2 million former Americans living in Canada or the UK which doesn’t require learning a foreign language. You really can’t make those kinds of sweeping statements about populations that large. Many Americans without any prior connections fled to Canada to avoid the Vietnam war for example and then made a home there.

Brit’s will also call themselves expats. https://britishexpats.com/forum/ ditto Canadians https://www.expatden.com/global/canadians-living-abroad/ Also, the US imposes taxes on Americans who leave until they renounce their citizenship on the upside they still get to vote. It’s an unusual relationship to your former country.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#273

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

mothballed wrote: post #268
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you really suggesting that a family should not have insurance at all and save the money? I have been working for 30 years and have never once paid more than $10K a year for insurance across 10 jobs 15 of those years were a family plan. Hell one of those jobs was with Amazon - the company with the shittiest benefit package in all of BigTech and even then I only $12K with a family plan. Right now we pay around $10K…

You've likely paid at least $18k if not more like $25k for that insurance in the form of wage income moved to benefit income. The government's tax and regulatory environment post WWII just ensures that unless you choose to take it as 1099 income, your potential 1099 income gets reflected in reduced W2 wages that are paid out in benefits. You might claim that if your employer didn't offer that benefit they'd just pay…

We know exactly how much your employer pays for their share of your health benefits. That was also part of the ACA to disclose it to employees.

You’re not wrong - I think it’s around 2/3rds so for me it would be around $36K a year all in if I had to do COBRA.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#274

Post by peruvian »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #21

I had the privilege of getting a working gig in Singapore for a small AI startup: such a well run country! There is a sense of community for helping by employing people who need jobs, the police were friendly and I felt very safe there (I like to take long walks either early in the morning or late at night and I felt very secure.) Amazing what the people and government have achieved since the end of WW2. 100% respect…

Singapore is an effective slave/permanent underclass state with few personal freedoms that is ethnically and culturally homogeneous (in each class). Not trying to do a "who's the bad/good country" but nothing about it really applies to the US or should.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#275

Post by michaelteter »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #21

I had the privilege of getting a working gig in Singapore for a small AI startup: such a well run country! There is a sense of community for helping by employing people who need jobs, the police were friendly and I felt very safe there (I like to take long walks either early in the morning or late at night and I felt very secure.) Amazing what the people and government have achieved since the end of WW2. 100% respect…

Listening to political speeches from Singapore are so refreshing compared to the juvenile garbage that we have to endure in the US from US politicians.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#276

Post by ahmeneeroe-v2 »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #84
everforward wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it sounds like a tax structured in a strange way so it doesn't obviously read as a tax. It's essentially a forced loan to the government at subpar rates. The "tax" is the delta between what the government pays out for the bonds vs what a bond of equivalent risk in the free market would have paid. The magnitude of the investment also probably makes it impractical for anyone but the very wealthy to retire before…

It’s almost impossible for an upper middle class couple to retire in the US before their 65 unless they have some type of government provided or private company provided health insurance like teachers, police officers, military etc. It’s about $25K a year for a decent plan which is doable. But you have to hope that Republicans - and yes this is a political issue - don’t successfully kill the ACA and make it impossibl…

[flagged]

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#277

Post by api »

michaelteter wrote: post #275
mark_l_watson wrote: post #21

I had the privilege of getting a working gig in Singapore for a small AI startup: such a well run country! There is a sense of community for helping by employing people who need jobs, the police were friendly and I felt very safe there (I like to take long walks either early in the morning or late at night and I felt very secure.) Amazing what the people and government have achieved since the end of WW2. 100% respect…

Listening to political speeches from Singapore are so refreshing compared to the juvenile garbage that we have to endure in the US from US politicians.

That’s true across much of the world. It’s also true past vs present. Listen to US politicians even as recently as the 1980s vs now. Our political class today is justifiably a pathetic laughing stock.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#278

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

scottyah wrote: post #246
supertrope wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That plan works until it suddenly doesn't. When it doesn't it's catastrophic for your finances and your health. If you have an extra couple million dollars above and beyond your regular retirement fund you could self-insure your medical costs. But then you could just buy the health insurance.

Medical expenses are less expensive when you don't have insurance. Insurance is just for catastrophic events, if you do some regular risk analysis you can come to a balance that works for you. If you know a major medical expense is imminent then get the insurance. Most procedures don't happen immediately anyway.

That’s not how insurance works even with the ACA. You have open enrollment is the only time you can get insurance on the open market. Good luck if you find you have a major medical issue right after open enrollment ends - which the Republican administration has shortened and you have to wait 9-10 months.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#279

Post by FredFS456 »

TheAlchemist wrote: post #262
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked with a guy from sg. He gave me tips for when I went to visit. He hooked me up with a family member that showed me the backend a bit. The country effectively runs on a slave class. You must drive a new vehicle under 5 years old, and the license just to buy a car was $90,000 or so. This means an entire class of people that will be taking the bus to do your laundry and clean your house for the rest of their liv…

Exactly this. The country's progress and management is extremely good, however it's enabled mostly by exploitation of migrant workers and various kind of white collar crimes (ie, facilitating business for illegal or sanctionned entities - cf Nvidia chips for China for example)

I think specifically for example of getting Nvidia chips to China, many Singaporeans would say that that is only illegal because the US deems it so. There is no moral reason.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#280

Post by scottLobster »

foxyv wrote: post #132
sam1714 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for the majority of retirement savings in the US, where Social Security makes up only about 25%. In the case of 401(k)s/DC plans and private pensions/DB plans, the government allowed savings without "confiscation," i.e. immediate taxation. They gave us the benefit of deferred taxation if you wait until retirement age.

What about the people who do not make enough to save and all their money goes to inflated living expenses? When do they get to retire?

They get Social Security and Medicare, which while insufficient for many these days is a lot more than they would have gotten 100 years ago.

No one is going to argue that the system is perfect or can't be improved. Good people get screwed over all the time and always will, the most we can try to do is minimize that population.

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