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Two days of oatmeal reduce cholesterol level

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Re: Two days of oatmeal reduce cholesterol level

#271

Post by ViktorRay »

KempyKolibri wrote: post #245
Qem wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it appears oat fibers are just quite effective natural bile acid sequestrants[1]. That makes me wonder why don't we use this class of locally-acting compounds as first line cholesterol lowering treatment, instead going straight for the "bazooka" of systemic acting statins that have lots of side-effects, even affecting personality[2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bile_acid_sequestrant [2] https://www.bbc.com/f…

Because medication is more effective. Side effects from statins are relatively uncommon and generally mild, so it wouldn’t be ethical to use lifestyle as a first-line treatment in place of, say, a combination of low dose statin and pcsk9 inhibitors. However many clinicians do take a “let’s sort out the problem as quickly as possible with medication, and if you want to try lifestyle and back off (or even stop entirely…

Wait isn’t this the other way around?

In reality lifestyle modifications are more conservative than using a medication so lifestyle modification would be first line from an ethical perspective.

In reality though it does seem like statins are used first line by many clinicians. But ethically speaking conservative interventions like lifestyle modification in terms of changing diet and exercise should be used prior to medicating a young otherwise healthy person.

In other groups such as when someone has had a recent heart attack of course the thought process is different. Such people should be immediately placed on a statin.

Re: Two days of oatmeal reduce cholesterol level

#272

Post by michaelbrave »

JeremyNT wrote: post #192
strken wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm left wondering what happens if you feed people 300g/day of barley, shredded wheat, brown rice, or any other wholegrain. For that matter, what happens if you do the same thing with legumes? The experiment halved energy intake at minimum and still provided 30+ grams of fibre then kept doing it until the gut emptied, which I reckon most people would expect to nuke and replace the gut microbiome, but did oatmeal have…

Yeah this is a really wild experiment. Their hypothesis for the mechanism is "gut bacteria" but these people in the study all had a trifecta of "high" body weight (overweight? obese? not specified in this article), high blood pressure, and hyperlipidemia. So we've got some unhealthy people, we cut their calories to less than half, we jack their fiber way up (most likely - we don't know their baseline diet but with th…

I don't think it's the fiber.

I did a similar unscientific experiment in the past where I did a juice fast for two weeks and had bloodwork done before and after (similar bodytype, unhealthy, overweight, high blood sugars, high cholesterol etc). Basically the doctor was shocked how all my numbers became the same as someone really healthy during the fast. So I think the lack of junk and calorie restriction is doing more than the fiber.

Re: Two days of oatmeal reduce cholesterol level

#273

Post by unparagoned »

KempyKolibri wrote: post #245
Qem wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it appears oat fibers are just quite effective natural bile acid sequestrants[1]. That makes me wonder why don't we use this class of locally-acting compounds as first line cholesterol lowering treatment, instead going straight for the "bazooka" of systemic acting statins that have lots of side-effects, even affecting personality[2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bile_acid_sequestrant [2] https://www.bbc.com/f…

Because medication is more effective. Side effects from statins are relatively uncommon and generally mild, so it wouldn’t be ethical to use lifestyle as a first-line treatment in place of, say, a combination of low dose statin and pcsk9 inhibitors. However many clinicians do take a “let’s sort out the problem as quickly as possible with medication, and if you want to try lifestyle and back off (or even stop entirely…

This isn’t true in the slightest.

Lifestyle is more effective and has less side effects.

Lifestyle is the first line of treatment, with meds being a later line of action.

Re: Two days of oatmeal reduce cholesterol level

#274

Post by KempyKolibri »

unparagoned wrote: post #273
KempyKolibri wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because medication is more effective. Side effects from statins are relatively uncommon and generally mild, so it wouldn’t be ethical to use lifestyle as a first-line treatment in place of, say, a combination of low dose statin and pcsk9 inhibitors. However many clinicians do take a “let’s sort out the problem as quickly as possible with medication, and if you want to try lifestyle and back off (or even stop entirely…

This isn’t true in the slightest. Lifestyle is more effective and has less side effects. Lifestyle is the first line of treatment, with meds being a later line of action.

What’s the evidence that lifestyle intervention is more effective than combination medication therapy?

Re: Two days of oatmeal reduce cholesterol level

#275

Post by KempyKolibri »

ViktorRay wrote: post #271
KempyKolibri wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because medication is more effective. Side effects from statins are relatively uncommon and generally mild, so it wouldn’t be ethical to use lifestyle as a first-line treatment in place of, say, a combination of low dose statin and pcsk9 inhibitors. However many clinicians do take a “let’s sort out the problem as quickly as possible with medication, and if you want to try lifestyle and back off (or even stop entirely…

Wait isn’t this the other way around? In reality lifestyle modifications are more conservative than using a medication so lifestyle modification would be first line from an ethical perspective. In reality though it does seem like statins are used first line by many clinicians. But ethically speaking conservative interventions like lifestyle modification in terms of changing diet and exercise should be used prior to m…

No, because we have a huge body of evidence pointing to both the safety and efficacy of lipid lowering medications. We know that as far as LDL-c goes, the lower the better, so since we have safe drugs that lower more effectively than lifestyle interventions, these are the first line option in most cases.

Re: Two days of oatmeal reduce cholesterol level

#276

Post by port11 »

kleiba wrote: post #207
port11 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, but personally I find it hard to eat too much of a ‘nut’ butter. I did keto for some months and was, in fact, almost always nauseatingly full from all the fat.

Interesting. I could eat PBJs all day long, if someone let me (and thank you to all the loving people who don't!)

Well, that J over there might be the trick. In keto I wouldn’t use jelly. I ate whatever fats and bits of protein I wanted, but it turns out that you’re full all the time and end up eating less (~2.2k calories vs my median of 2.6k).

Re: Two days of oatmeal reduce cholesterol level

#277

Post by port11 »

hippo22 wrote: post #163
kleiba wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But also high in fat and thus calories. Lower-grade brands also add in garbage like palm fat or sugar. But like with all things, it depends a lot on the quantities you consume and also what else you eat and drink.

The high fat is a benefit not a detriment.

Depends on your views of the lymphatic system and the role of fiber and protein. My fiber intake during keto was <15g, and I think my colon wasn’t happy.

Re: Two days of oatmeal reduce cholesterol level

#278

Post by dredmorbius »

walthamstow wrote: post #172
beAbU wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can skip the whole cooking part if you leave your oats and water mixed overnight! Put your oats, portion of milk, some berries, cinnamon and honey in a container and leave it in the fridge overnight. Do it now. Come thank me tomorrow morning once you've tried it.

This works well for rolled oats but not for steel cut. Both types are much nicer cooked in a pot with stirring to bring out the creaminess (like risotto).

It's possible to both soak and cook the oats.

The overnight oats (rolled or steel cut) will cook much faster after they've soaked up liquid. If you're adding ingredients such as egg (two per 1/3 cup s.c. oats) this takes care of the raw elements as well.

Re: Two days of oatmeal reduce cholesterol level

#279

Post by dredmorbius »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #220
x0x0 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

300g is a lot of oatmeal. I eat Bob's Red Mill steel cut oats for breakfast every day; 1/2c dry is about 88g. That's a pretty decent meal. 3.5x that is probably most of what you eat that day.

i mean we talkin cooked or uncooked? 88g dry may get much heavier after adding 3/4 cups water

3/4 cup is about 315 ml, or another 315 g, for just over 400g cooked weight. The linked article does not make clear whether or not the 300g is dry or cooked weight.

The original paper describes two protocols, short-term and long-term (2-day and 6-week respectively) of 100g dry oats and 80g dry oats prepared for each meal. That's a generous but not outrageous serving size, and the former comes out to 300g oats per day over three meals.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-026-68303-9#Sec15>

Re: Two days of oatmeal reduce cholesterol level

#280

Post by sn9 »

lithocarpus wrote: post #269
sn9 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doctors and public health organizations literally have dietary and physical activity guidelines.

True, it is more complicated. For one, there could be some financial incentives mixed in in that health insurance companies would want their people to be healthier so they don't pay out as much, but it's not that simple for them either - the health industry as a whole profits more if there is more treatment ergo more health problems. If health care was cheap or less needed the insurers themselves would make less. Mor…

The problem is entirely about patients refusing to do what they know is good for them if it takes any self-discipline, so doctors resort to medication.

You can't force them to have healthy lifestyles.

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