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Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

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Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#271

Post by lr4444lr »

isoprophlex wrote: post #43

Because it's common to hate on antidepressants, I've always personally had a bias against them. For the past 15-20 years, november thru february are basically a writeoff due for me due to seasonal affective disorder. Cold showers, exercise, no alcohol, strict sleeping rituals. Vitamin d. I can still sleep 11 hours and feel like reheated cat shit. Enter citalopram. "It will take up to six weeks to dial in" they said.…

They've been losing ground to placebo in more recent research.

Plus, most of the more serious side effects take a lot more time to manifest than the typical length any given patient remained in the older clinical trials that secured FDA approval and grounded the official manufacturer literature.

I am glad we have these tools, but I suspect they are vastly overused, and patients not well informed.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#272

Post by Murfalo »

ghusto wrote: post #161
isoprophlex wrote: post #43

Because it's common to hate on antidepressants, I've always personally had a bias against them. For the past 15-20 years, november thru february are basically a writeoff due for me due to seasonal affective disorder. Cold showers, exercise, no alcohol, strict sleeping rituals. Vitamin d. I can still sleep 11 hours and feel like reheated cat shit. Enter citalopram. "It will take up to six weeks to dial in" they said.…

The hate on antidepressants is not because they're not effective, but rather that they're abused by psychiatrists. Ideally, a professional will prescribe them as a necessary helper to becoming (more) mentally healthy whilst tackling the root cause. Most of the time however, it's more of a "here, take these indefinitely". It's like if we took sleeping pills every time we had trouble sleeping. Having said that, I just…

The truth about antidepressants is that the majority of people with depression that respond to an antidepressant would also have responded to a placebo. This doesn't mean that their depression isn't real or that antidepressants "don't work". It just means that placebo has a relatively high response rate in trials for depression. The hate is (among other points) because they are only arguably, marginally, better than placebo, and antidepressants also have real side effects (activation syndrome, increased suicidality, sexual side effects, withdrawals, etc.) over placebo.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#273

Post by setgree »

isoprophlex wrote: post #43

Because it's common to hate on antidepressants, I've always personally had a bias against them. For the past 15-20 years, november thru february are basically a writeoff due for me due to seasonal affective disorder. Cold showers, exercise, no alcohol, strict sleeping rituals. Vitamin d. I can still sleep 11 hours and feel like reheated cat shit. Enter citalopram. "It will take up to six weeks to dial in" they said.…

I’m glad to hear that. Another frame is that your depression turned out to be “math hard” rather than bodybuilding hard [0]. Your disciplined, methodical approaches were steady applications of effort, whereas what you actually needed was easy to implement but hard to envision.

[0] https://www.alexcrompton.com/blog/2017/05/26/hard-is-not-def...

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#274

Post by voidUpdate »

b800h wrote: post #256
voidUpdate wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I could cut down on my caffeine intake to help my ADHD. Unfortunately, I already have basically zero caffeine intake (apart from diet coke sometimes)

Exercise is another good thing to do on a daily basis. It prevents me from self-medicating with alcohol.

Does walking 1.8 miles to work and back each day count as exercise? :P

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#275

Post by brushfoot »

cube2222 wrote: post #96
brushfoot wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ratio of Omega 6 to 3 needs to be below 4:1 to be a good source of Omega 3, and hemp hearts are at 3:1, so they're listed as a good source of Omega 3. Flax seeds are even better just for Omega 3 at 1:3, but hemp hearts have other benefits, like more protein, which is why I called them out. That said, I eat a fair amount of flax seeds as well.

Just to reiterate, both of those (hemp hearts and flaxseed) only contain ALA, while what you're generally looking for is EPA and DHA. TFA also explicitly mentions it's only talking about EPA. This is not to say that they're unhealthy of course. EDIT: see the sibling comment by code_biologist, it's much more comprehensive than what I've written.

Your body converts ALA into EPA and DHA, however, so plants are fine sources of both.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#276

Post by raincole »

ghusto wrote: post #161
isoprophlex wrote: post #43

Because it's common to hate on antidepressants, I've always personally had a bias against them. For the past 15-20 years, november thru february are basically a writeoff due for me due to seasonal affective disorder. Cold showers, exercise, no alcohol, strict sleeping rituals. Vitamin d. I can still sleep 11 hours and feel like reheated cat shit. Enter citalopram. "It will take up to six weeks to dial in" they said.…

The hate on antidepressants is not because they're not effective, but rather that they're abused by psychiatrists. Ideally, a professional will prescribe them as a necessary helper to becoming (more) mentally healthy whilst tackling the root cause. Most of the time however, it's more of a "here, take these indefinitely". It's like if we took sleeping pills every time we had trouble sleeping. Having said that, I just…

> it's more of a "here, take these indefinitely"

And when you question this approach, the famous lecture comes: "but diabetes patients take insulin for life. You realize depression is a real condition and need to be treated right?"

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#277

Post by andruby »

Murfalo wrote: post #272
ghusto wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hate on antidepressants is not because they're not effective, but rather that they're abused by psychiatrists. Ideally, a professional will prescribe them as a necessary helper to becoming (more) mentally healthy whilst tackling the root cause. Most of the time however, it's more of a "here, take these indefinitely". It's like if we took sleeping pills every time we had trouble sleeping. Having said that, I just…

The truth about antidepressants is that the majority of people with depression that respond to an antidepressant would also have responded to a placebo. This doesn't mean that their depression isn't real or that antidepressants "don't work". It just means that placebo has a relatively high response rate in trials for depression. The hate is (among other points) because they are only arguably, marginally, better than…

> The truth about antidepressants is that the majority of people with depression that respond to an antidepressant would also have responded to a placebo.

^ citation needed

What does "would have responded" mean? Are you saying that >50% of people with depression that are "helped" by antidepressant, would have been helped _to a similar extend_ with a placebo?

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#278

Post by citrin_ru »

ajross wrote: post #237
citrin_ru wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you view a world at a certain angle there is always something to worry about: 1. World in not perfect, it doesn't confirm to how we want it to be (and could not even in theory given that different people want it to be different) 2. The future cannot be predicted with 100% accuracy so even if all is perfect today you can worry that it will turn bad in the future. When looking at the same reality one persons sees th…

This is the "people with anxiety should just stop being worried" attitude that failed to help for centuries. Whether or not you believe SSRI's are clinically effective, denying the existence of mental health disorders is not helping. No, anxiety and depression aren't simply a matter of perspective.

My point is that it's hard if not possible to objectively tell if the situation you are in is good or bad. And I'm not trying to deny anything.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#279

Post by fc417fc802 »

deltoidmaximus wrote: post #239
hermannj314 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought the once weekly 50,000IU bottle on Amazon and am currently taking 4 a day and I am ignoring all growing signs of vitamin D toxicity because I read this guys blog and never once ever decided to consult another source, including later paragraphs in that same blog because there was no warning. Without a warning, you should blindly follow all medical advice you read online. That is that pathway to death you are…

I was going to say, wouldn't following through on this mistake require you to not just spend a ton of money on pills but also take tons of them a day? I'd like to think this would give even the dumbest of people pause just because of the practicality aspect.

You might be surprised. Medical journals that specialize in reporting one-off cases have some wild articles.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#280

Post by zug_zug »

tock wrote: post #147
cardanome wrote: post #42

With depression it is important to find the cause of it. You might be depressed because you life objectively sucks. Then you symptoms are good and healthy and a signal to make changes in your circumstances. You might actually have a good life but still feel depressed because there is a chemical imbalance in your brain. (Very simplified). That is when drugs come in. It might be just a seasonal thing and you need to go…

You mean relatively sucks. Else every single human ancestor would have to be super depressed too given the standard of life in the past.

I don't think that's true. I think that just shows how disconnected we are.

We tell ourselves that we must have "better lives" than say a native american in the year 1000AD, but there's no reason to think that.

I think odds are that maybe the native american was happier -- having a small group that you spend time with outdoors every day, getting extensive exercise, having a clear sense of purpose, eating healthy fresh food every day, never once thinking about politics or bills or global warming. I bet they liked their life more than a depressed divorced accountant in our modern society, even if we have more material wealth or health access.

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