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ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

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Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#271

Post by elric »

sbarre wrote: post #142
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People thought we were nuts for using historical examples about the Nazis abusing all kinds of records to hunt down Jews What data-retention issues do you have with HHS having patients’ home addresses?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

It certainly wasn't intended as a straw man argument. I was speaking to the broader issue that any data that's gathered anywhere can be used against people. Even if it seems like there are good reasons to store it.

I think you may have missed that I was replying specifically to this part of a parent comment and agreeting with it:

> We are really seeing the fears of data collection from the 2000s and 2010s come to fruition

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#272

Post by lrvick »

tucnak wrote: post #195
lrvick wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They almost exclusively hire fresh grads who need money more than ethics, and it shows in everything they do.

Exactly like any other big tech (Google, Microsoft, etc) or consulting (McKinsey, Deloitte, etc) company! There really isn't anything special about Palantir the company. They have disrupted consulting on marketing alone (all this forward-deployed stuff is more fluff than anything) which is not unheard of, and continue to receive all this bad press due to their clientele and the kind of data they're processing. Govern…

Well yes, all the big tech companies are just as corrupt as Palintir, but only Palintir is actively making tech purpose built to enable some of the most vile people on the planet to more easily physically kidnap and harm human beings for money. They are trying to be 1930s IBM

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#273

Post by wibbily »

mindslight wrote: post #259
mrexcess wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has he been markedly wrong about any of these positions that he's staked out over the years, from closed hardware to mobile security?

The only thing I've found that RMS is wrong about is defining away firmware-stored-in-flash as "hardware", while getting stuck on firmware blobs loaded into coprocessors indicting whole systems. It appears to be a handwaving distinction formed from previous times - when the distinction didn't really matter, a line had to be drawn somewhere, and being able to do things like declare an entire CDROM as "free software" w…

IIRC "firmware as hardware" only applies if nobody - not you, not the manufacturer - can update it. I.e. your laptop's BIOS is software, the controller in your washing machine is hardware.

Of course, now washing machines connect to the Internet, so the obvious lines have blurred

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#274

Post by mindslight »

wibbily wrote: post #273
mindslight wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing I've found that RMS is wrong about is defining away firmware-stored-in-flash as "hardware", while getting stuck on firmware blobs loaded into coprocessors indicting whole systems. It appears to be a handwaving distinction formed from previous times - when the distinction didn't really matter, a line had to be drawn somewhere, and being able to do things like declare an entire CDROM as "free software" w…

IIRC "firmware as hardware" only applies if nobody - not you, not the manufacturer - can update it. I.e. your laptop's BIOS is software, the controller in your washing machine is hardware. Of course, now washing machines connect to the Internet, so the obvious lines have blurred

I recall it being applied to firmware residing in flash, which is most everything these days (truly non-updateable means mask ROM).

Even without the Internet connection, the firmware in your washing machine can be updated whether by service call or DIY by seeing what chip it uses and how it gets programmed.

Which is why I think it makes sense to talk in terms of software freedom for specific devices / security domains. For example, it's perfectly fine to just admit that your washing machine, wifi card, mouse, network switch, etc doesn't respect software freedom, rather than trying to define one's way out of it. And then if and when you do run into an issue that is made frustrating by a lack of software freedom, you can then opt to remedy this.

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#275

Post by muwtyhg »

ahzhzvH wrote: post #139
elric wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are really seeing the fears of data collection from the 2000s and 2010s come to fruition as privatized surveillance now. Cambridge analytica should have been the warning shot but it wasn't enough. I remember protesting against data retention laws in the early 2000s. People thought we were nuts for using historical examples about the Nazis abusing all kinds of records to hunt down Jews. History was never going to…

> Nazis abusing all kinds of records to hunt down Jews. History was never going to repeat itself that way Kinda ironic but I think you’ve got the current situation a little backwards. Karp (who is Jewish) has boasted about Palantir being used to hunt down the “far right”: https://www.theregister.com/2024/02/28/palantir_boss_fii_spe... I think it’s very important to focus on how data collection of this nature is bad,…

It's not bad because the Nazis did it. It's bad because it can be abused, and we can point to a historical example in the Nazis. If the Nazis had not done it, it would not be used as an example, but it would still be a negative possible outcome

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#277

Post by gortok »

CleaveIt2Beaver wrote: post #267
gortok wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn’t clear. I’m referring to a news link indicating that judges have released folks due to valid arrest warrants but invalid means of arresting folks.

Isn't that moving the goalposts? The comment you were asking under specifically said these arrests were made without obtaining a warrant.

ICE uses administrative warrants; and while administrative warrants do not allow for seizures inside a home, see my comment about the legal argument of “you can’t suppress the body” for why there’s not a whole lot that can be done if they do decide to kick down your door. The latest Serious Trouble podcast goes into this at the 12 minute mark. https://www.serioustrouble.show/p/120-days

In this case the story didn’t make it clear whether or not they even had an administrative warrant. I’d be interested to find out if they did.

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#278

Post by nosuchthing »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #61
bux93 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should still practice minimization of PII, also known as Data Minimization. Especially in the EU, where it's the law (GDPR).

You should also wash your hands after using the toilet. That’s about as relevant to HHS sharing data with DHS as what you’re talking about.

Metadata is never deleted, only copied to more and more archives and databases.

You're always being added to a list, and all of your metadata decides what lists you'll end up on in the future.

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#279

Post by tgv »

Ylpertnodi wrote: post #235
ubermonkey wrote: post #122

There is no morally defensible reason to work for Palantir.

Do you purchase unilever products? Nike shoes? Etc, etc, etc. Not to be flippant, but morals are variable. Two of my kids are into investing, and some of their choices are 'morally indefensible', to me. We've had the discussions since they were old enough to be taught 'right' from wrong. Their aims are to increase the money they have, not to make anyone feel better, or judge others' choices.

I'm sorry, but the goal does not justify the means. Someone who wants to get more money, does not get a free pass on how this is achieved. As many have said: your actions show your morals.

> Do you purchase unilever products? Nike shoes? Etc, etc, etc.

So you actually support that idea.

Re: ICE and Palantir: US agents using health data to hunt illegal immigrants

#280

Post by mothballed »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #31
mothballed wrote: post #5

[flagged]

> Any use or benefit obtained via the state apparatus should be viewed from the lens it will be wielded This is nonsense. Given the same tendency is shared by large private organisations, this is throwing one’s hands up with extra steps. Regulations and laws work. The fact that a section of the INA seems to compel pretty ridiculous amounts of inter-departmental data sharing is the issue.

It's not throwing your hands up. I still do deal with private organizations, knowing they will do the same thing. It's doing a risk analysis. I expect everyone I do business with will fuck me the most they can the millisecond they have a chance. Thus I try to do business with people with the least incentive to do so, or failing that, those with the least leverage to do so.
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