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Xfwl4 – The Roadmap for a Xfce Wayland Compositor

alexxcons.github.io

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Re: Xfwl4 – The Roadmap for a Xfce Wayland Compositor

#271

Post by throwaw111 »

gf000 wrote: post #160
throw0101a wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It depends on what you mean by send. Currently I can: $ ssh -X somehost xeyes and get a window on macOS.

For xeyes that works. It is absolutely an inferior and chatty protocol for any other application though, like try to watch a youtube video in chrome through it. X's network transparency was made at a time when we drawn two lines as UI, and for that it works very well. But today even your Todo app has a bunch of icons that are just bitmaps to X, and we can transfer those via much better means (that should probably not…

Watching a video will be the same as a on Wayland, just sending a video buffer, no?

The icons: you allocate memory on server for that and do not transfare the icon everytime. I think x11 works like that, not sure.

I know GUI lib that you can still compile with freetype disabled. Not everyone need the GUIs you talking about. Everyone is using cars, so lets ban bikes.. it does not need to be like that.

I find X11 RPC useful, simple UI is ok.. you can write programs that will run on any slow or not computer, remotely. Web is not that simple, it is different way of programming, it is not transparent. Web is useful for commerce, but not for controlling machines at factories or pilot cabins. IMO.

Re: Xfwl4 – The Roadmap for a Xfce Wayland Compositor

#272

Post by silon42 »

ChocolateGod wrote: post #185
amazari wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that all the Wayland primitives, event handling and drawing in gnome-shell are handled in C/native code through Mutter, right ? The JavaScript in gnome-shell is the cherry on top for scripting, similar to C#/Lua (or any GCed language) in game engines, elisp in Emacs, event JS in QtQuick/QML. It is not the performance bottleneck people seem to believe.

It has been the case that stalls in the GJS land can stall the compositor though, especially if it's during a GC cycle.

is GJS in the compositor?

Re: Xfwl4 – The Roadmap for a Xfce Wayland Compositor

#273

Post by hurricanepootis »

int0x29 wrote: post #199
hurricanepootis wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wayland supports HDR, it's very easy to configure VRR, and it's fractional scaling (if implemented properly) is far superior to anything X11 can offer. Furthermore, all of these options can be enabled individually on multiple screens on the same system and still offer a good mix-used environment. As someone who has been using HiDPI displays on Linux for the past 7 years, wayland was such a game changer for how my sys…

Fractional scaling for wayland is broken on a per app basis which feels strictly worse to me than it was before. Libre office currently is broken on wayland and works in x11

LibreOffice works for me on wayland lol. I don't know why you would wanna do fractional scaling on a per app basis whenever you got one screen. But, for your libreoffice woes, try using a different backend?

Libreoffice includes support for gtk3, gtk4, Qt6, and other backends: https://github.com/LibreOffice/core/blob/master/vcl/README.m...

Maybe you need to try wayland with an alternative backend?

Re: Xfwl4 – The Roadmap for a Xfce Wayland Compositor

#274

Post by silon42 »

torstenvl wrote: post #138
Gualdrapo wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enlightenment. No, really. If they ever move away from GTK (due to the GNOME shenanigans GNOME-izing GTK) I wish Englightenment and Xfce were together a single thing. But that's if I could ask the Tux genie three wishes.

GTK4 is still pretty usable without libadwaita and all its Gnome-isms. But frankly I think forking and maintaining GTK3 is preferable to moving to EFL or Qt. GIMP is still on GTK3. MATE is still on GTK3. Inkscape is still on GTK3 (but GTK4 work is in progress). Evolution is still on GTK3. I think GTK3 will be around for a long time.

+1...

Re: Xfwl4 – The Roadmap for a Xfce Wayland Compositor

#275

Post by fmoralesc »

ok123456 wrote: post #222
simoncion wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a downgrade that we have no choice but to accept in order to continue using our machines. Odd. Xorg still works fine [0], and we'll see how XLibre pans out. [0] I'm using it right now , and it's still getting updates.

They're trying to "nudge" everyone. Major desktop environments and entire distributions are removing X11 support to varying degrees. A lot of this is because they can't get their adoption rates above about half due to various broken workflows or simply user preference. They intentionally don't want you to keep using X11, and they'll keep turning up the heat on the pot until we're all boiling. Gnome just removed the m…

> Gnome just removed the middle-click paste option. Is that because they fixed the clipboard situation on Linux, and there's a universal, unambiguous way of cut and paste that works across every application? No. It's because middle-click to paste is an "X-ism." This is just demagoguery and unserious.

They disabled it by default. You can enable it if you want.

Re: Xfwl4 – The Roadmap for a Xfce Wayland Compositor

#276

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

dTal wrote: post #267
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but systemd has absolutely nothing, or even less than nothing to do with user-space GUI desktop applications.

Ah, if only! GNOME and even to an extent KDE both depend on systemd components, to the point that systemd-free distros are compelled to fork it if they want a GUI: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Elogind Only yesterday I was wondering how it is that my brightness keys work in my desktop environment, when /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/brightness is only writeable by root. The (somewhat horrifying) answer is that a…

As noted by others below, this has nothing to do with GUI desktop applications.

Sure, systemd is involved in running the system on which those applications run, but the discussion was about some sort of equivalent to the unified GUI stack offered by macOS (the Core* frameworks) which are used by essentially every GUI application on that platform. Linux doesn't have that, and there's nobody in a position to force that on developers. systemd has nothing to do with this.

Re: Xfwl4 – The Roadmap for a Xfce Wayland Compositor

#277

Post by RunSet »

kelnos wrote: post #217
uecker wrote: post #118

Wow, this is annoying. I really like Xfce, but there are plenty of minor things which would need improvements. Instead of fixing all these minor things, they waste a lot of their donations on a rewrite for Wayland / Rust - apparently for exactly the same reason as all the other Wayland stuff and Rust reworks. Developers like to write new code more than actually maintaining / improving fixing existing things and finds…

(xfwl4 author here.) That's a fair criticism sometimes, but, frankly, if you want things the way you want them, learn to code and dig in. Otherwise it's not really fair of you to complain about stuff that people have built for you for free, in their spare time. In this particular case, it's not fully a "new and shiny, must play!" situation. I personally am not even a big fan of Wayland, and I'm generally highly criti…

> That's just the way the wind is blowing.

I trust you understand that some readers may not find (to paraphrase) "I don't like it either but it is what it is." a compelling reason to fix something that is not broken.

Re: Xfwl4 – The Roadmap for a Xfce Wayland Compositor

#278

Post by neuroblaster »

I guess at this point it is safe to say that whenever you see "rewrite in Rust", it simply means there is no one to maintain the software anymore. They are saying this pretty openly that they weren't able to patch xfwm4.

I only fear that this is manifestation of a wider phenomenon when new software developers are unable to maintain software created by old software developers. If that is so, they will try to simplify the software to what they can actually maintain and rewrite it into a form in which they can maintain it.

If i assume this is true, then all of this is annoying, but actually makes sense: Wayland is simpler than X11, so people will tend to maintain Wayland-related software rather than X11-related. Rust won't let unskilled coders to make some mistakes, so from their point of view it is going to be simpler to rewrite something in Rust.

Although, goodbye network-transparency, goodbye performance, goodbye stability. Oh well, but it's that time of the year.

Re: Xfwl4 – The Roadmap for a Xfce Wayland Compositor

#279

Post by RunSet »

treve wrote: post #119
prima-facie wrote: post #15

Am I the only one who's not buying into the Wayland hype? I just want X11 support not to fall into disrepair, as I see nothing wrong with it.

Some cognitive dissonance going on here. The vast majority of current Linux Desktop users are on Wayland, and X11 is phased out across the board. Calling it hype is absurd.

> Some cognitive dissonance going on here.

The cognitive dissonance I perceive goes like "No one is being paid to work on X11, therefore I should volunteer to work on Wayland."

Re: Xfwl4 – The Roadmap for a Xfce Wayland Compositor

#280

Post by gf000 »

throwaw111 wrote: post #271
gf000 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For xeyes that works. It is absolutely an inferior and chatty protocol for any other application though, like try to watch a youtube video in chrome through it. X's network transparency was made at a time when we drawn two lines as UI, and for that it works very well. But today even your Todo app has a bunch of icons that are just bitmaps to X, and we can transfer those via much better means (that should probably not…

Watching a video will be the same as a on Wayland, just sending a video buffer, no? The icons: you allocate memory on server for that and do not transfare the icon everytime. I think x11 works like that, not sure. I know GUI lib that you can still compile with freetype disabled. Not everyone need the GUIs you talking about. Everyone is using cars, so lets ban bikes.. it does not need to be like that. I find X11 RPC u…

I don't really get your first 2 paragraphs. We are talking about connecting remotely to another computer, you can't do much at the other end of a network call with a server allocated buffer - at most you can cache stuff there. But that ain't helping with a video or any kind of fancier than a solid rectangle graphics.

And sure, simple UIs have their place - but they will also work just as well with a proper transport protocol, hell, they would compress even better. So just waypipe that simple UI as you see it fit.

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