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Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

keck.usc.edu

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Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#271

Post by cinntaile »

londons_explore wrote: post #253
m463 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of smells.... One good thing about driving an EV is that weird oil or hot coolant smells are from someone else's car (and not a problem with your car) (although yes technically many EVs have coolant loops)

As the fleet of EV's age, I'm sure we'll see equivalents... "The high voltage wires were just dragging on the street sparking, presumably with all the safety features disabled" "They were driving with a 10 gallon coolant tank on the roof, presumably because the coolant loop had a big leak and needed continuous topping up".

You're not allowed to drive cars like that in a functional society. When you go for your compulsory car checkup it wouldn't pass the required safety standards.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#272

Post by kelnos »

stevenjgarner wrote: post #41
ares623 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just hope "dumb" EV's become a thing soon. I cannot and will not own a smart car any more I want to own a smart TV or smart fridge or smart toaster.

Why? Are you worried from a liberty/privacy standpoint? "Smart" EV's are demonstrated to be significantly safer than "dumb" EVs. Waymo’s 2025/2026 data shows an 80–90% reduction in injury-causing crashes compared to human drivers in the same cities. [1, 2, 3, 4] [1] https://www.reinsurancene.ws/waymo-shows-90-fewer-claims-tha... [2] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11305169/ [3] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.go…

Waymos are driverless vehicles. We're talking about always-connected human-driver vehicles. The comparison is not apt.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#273

Post by memen »

princevegeta89 wrote: post #3

No surprises. No matter how we look at it, EVs are much friendlier and safer to the environment. Some people argue the source of electricty can be contested against because that involves fossil fuel burning again, but in today's world we are rapidly moving away from it and towards nuclear/hydel/wind methods for generating power. I hope ICE cars completely become a thing of the past in the next couple of decades to co…

Is that true? EV have much higher emissions of micro plastics and pfas (or variations thereof) due to increased tier degradation. EVs are typically way heavier than similar ICE due to the batteries and combined with the higher torques, tires wear faster.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#274

Post by ako »

dijit wrote: post #256

The real scandal isn’t just battery degradation… it’s that manufacturers have zero incentive to solve it. Your car becoming worthless after a decade suits them down to the ground. Battery swapping changes the game entirely. Imagine a national network of exchange stations (co-located with existing petrol infrastructure, you can use the overhead canopy for solar). Standard pack sizes scaled by vehicle class: compact ca…

So you don't think the free market will force manufactures to compete on better batteries? I always thought the benefit of the free market was that it forced companies to compete on product quality... /s

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#275

Post by AnthonyMouse »

stevenjgarner wrote: post #41
ares623 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just hope "dumb" EV's become a thing soon. I cannot and will not own a smart car any more I want to own a smart TV or smart fridge or smart toaster.

Why? Are you worried from a liberty/privacy standpoint? "Smart" EV's are demonstrated to be significantly safer than "dumb" EVs. Waymo’s 2025/2026 data shows an 80–90% reduction in injury-causing crashes compared to human drivers in the same cities. [1, 2, 3, 4] [1] https://www.reinsurancene.ws/waymo-shows-90-fewer-claims-tha... [2] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11305169/ [3] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.go…

> "Smart" EV's are demonstrated to be significantly safer than "dumb" EVs. Waymo’s 2025/2026 data shows an 80–90% reduction in injury-causing crashes compared to human drivers in the same cities.

It's important to realize the reason for that.

Crashes by human drivers are hugely disproportionately by people who are driving drunk or with insufficient sleep or significant distractions etc. In other words, it's not a difference in the cars, it's a difference in the drivers. Waymo can beat a drunk driver, and therefore can beat the human driver arithmetic mean which has the drunk drivers averaged in.

That doesn't mean it's any safer than driving an ordinary car when you're not drunk.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#276

Post by cbeach »

memen wrote: post #273
princevegeta89 wrote: post #3

No surprises. No matter how we look at it, EVs are much friendlier and safer to the environment. Some people argue the source of electricty can be contested against because that involves fossil fuel burning again, but in today's world we are rapidly moving away from it and towards nuclear/hydel/wind methods for generating power. I hope ICE cars completely become a thing of the past in the next couple of decades to co…

Is that true? EV have much higher emissions of micro plastics and pfas (or variations thereof) due to increased tier degradation. EVs are typically way heavier than similar ICE due to the batteries and combined with the higher torques, tires wear faster.

I have a heavy and high performance EV (Tesla Model S) and I have replaced my tires twice in the last six years. So it’s about the same as an ICE vehicle in that regard.

One thing that differs is brake wear. My car is ten years old and still on its original brake pads and discs. The regen braking is amazing for avoiding mechanical braking. So that means less particle emission from brakes, compared to ICE.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#277

Post by mtoner23 »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #258

I love EVs, ever since I test drove an BMW i3 in 2012. Quiet with high drag - of course this is the future. BUT I don't think switching to EVs will help reduce CO2 in any way - not even if all the EVs are charged using 100% solar/wind. The narrative usually is "I get an EV instead of an ICE, charge it with regenerative energy and have 0 emissions, thus not burning oil and saving on CO2". But that is not how a globali…

Reduced demand for oil reduces the quantity of oil extracted and purduced. The price drops and hardwr to extract oil stops being produced

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#278

Post by lazide »

londons_explore wrote: post #253
m463 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of smells.... One good thing about driving an EV is that weird oil or hot coolant smells are from someone else's car (and not a problem with your car) (although yes technically many EVs have coolant loops)

As the fleet of EV's age, I'm sure we'll see equivalents... "The high voltage wires were just dragging on the street sparking, presumably with all the safety features disabled" "They were driving with a 10 gallon coolant tank on the roof, presumably because the coolant loop had a big leak and needed continuous topping up".

Most EVs have lockouts that will be very hard to bypass for things like this.

It’s more ‘I could have replaced a few cells in my battery pack, but the car bricked itself when I opened the pack! Assholes!’.

Notably many recent ICE cars aren’t much better.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#279

Post by cbeach »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #261
princevegeta89 wrote: post #3

No surprises. No matter how we look at it, EVs are much friendlier and safer to the environment. Some people argue the source of electricty can be contested against because that involves fossil fuel burning again, but in today's world we are rapidly moving away from it and towards nuclear/hydel/wind methods for generating power. I hope ICE cars completely become a thing of the past in the next couple of decades to co…

> I hope ICE cars completely become a thing of the past in the next couple of decades to come. for this to happen the EVs depreciation needs to drastically improve compared to ICE. I don't see this. On top of this EVs tend to push ideas from Software/Tech companies, such as recurring revenues (because the underlying technology lends itself to it better). Personally I'm unsure that this will be accepted by all consume…

Public transport will never recreate the freedom of car ownership.

It’s a collectivist dream not rooted in reality.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#280

Post by torginus »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #228
MBCook wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of ICE cars I get stuck behind from time to time that just REEK is amazing. I’m in a decently well off area too. Some putting off soot clouds, white smoke, nothing visible but clearly not doing complete combustion. Sometimes I wonder if half the cylinders are even working. I’ve heard one car like that is the equivalent of a surprisingly large number of modern ICE cars is in good shape. I love EVs. I’ve had…

> get stuck behind from time to time that just REEK is amazing It’s crazy. How do we even allow selling cars without HEPA filters.

HEPA filters stop dust particles and not those tiny organic molecules that cause the smells. Filters for these exist as well, usually used in respirators, but those need to be exchanged pretty frequently and are not cheap.
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