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What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

scotthelme.co.uk

271–280 of 368 posts

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, the original idea was that they would pull older batteries from circulation when their capacities dipped, and then repurpose them as powerwalls, an application where weight is irrelevant. This was back when they expected the batteries to plateau at ~80% capacity after a few years, and they had battery swapping on the roadmap, so they needed to plan for a future where they had a steady supply of batteries that c…

Any idea why swapping didn't pan out for Tesla? My understanding is they are doing that in China.

> Any idea why swapping didn't pan out for Tesla?

~~Two~~ Three things:

1. California changed the rules shortly after Tesla demonstrated their swap station, which practically eliminated the tax credit for battery swap (at the behest of lobbyists for Toyota, who were backing Hydrogen Fuel Cell technology). Specifically, the credit would be prorated by the percent of “fast refueling” sessions a car did, so EVs primarily charged at home received almost nothing while HFCV got the full credit. Building swap capability adds complexity to the car (think about all the fluid connections), which isn’t worth it without credits.

2. It was also around this time that a Model S ran over an anvil (or something) which punctured the pack and started a fire. In response, Tesla added an aluminum battery shield, which further complexifies swapping and was probably the final nail in the coffin.

3. The logistics of storing your very expensive battery (so you could get it back later) basically make the system unworkable. When the Tesla swap station at Harris Ranch (you can still see the former building, next to Harris BBQ, which currently houses the restrooms) was operational, you had to make a reservation some hours in advance so that Tesla could have a pack ready and be ready to take your pack to/from storage.

3a. Gresham’s Law. Without eventually returning the pack to the original owner, there is an adverse selection problem: people with very weak packs will gladly roll the dice on a swap, but those with brand new packs are reluctant. So the average quality of packs in the swap network will quickly decline creating a death spiral.

3b. You could probably fix 3a by leasing the battery (or selling battery-as-a-service) but car buyers mostly don’t like that, especially back in 2013.

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think I need batteries for 2 weeks of normal consumption?

We practically don't see the sun in northern Europe during winter. And yes, the wind might not blow either. I consider 2 weeks of supply a bare minimum.

How would 2 weeks of battery help you in that situation? The winter lasts a lot longer than 2 weeks. So after 2 weeks of no sun, wouldn't you be just as screwed as if you had 1 week of battery storage?

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#273
post #52

It's wild how overpriced Tesla Powerwalls are. 16 kWh battery with all of the UL supported listings etc = $3300 [0] 13.5 kWh Tesla Powerwall is $12k~$15k You would get your return way back quicker. [0] - https://www.ruixubattery.com/product-page/lithi2-16-battery-... EDIT: As others have pointed out, powerwalls have inverters built in so it's not totally apples to apples. You can get a beefy inverter for $5k and it's…

Now they are overpriced but up until 2022/3 they were the best value unit.

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#275
post #52

It's wild how overpriced Tesla Powerwalls are. 16 kWh battery with all of the UL supported listings etc = $3300 [0] 13.5 kWh Tesla Powerwall is $12k~$15k You would get your return way back quicker. [0] - https://www.ruixubattery.com/product-page/lithi2-16-battery-... EDIT: As others have pointed out, powerwalls have inverters built in so it's not totally apples to apples. You can get a beefy inverter for $5k and it's…

In the UK, where the OP is from, the equivalent of the battery you linked is available from Fogstar for £1850 (includes 20% VAT), shipped. Without the VAT that works out at ~$2000. A compatible high end 9kW inverter is available for around £1200.

The ROI is really attractive once you look past the overpriced kit.

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#276
I have 5kwp panels one tesla powerwall (bought before musk had a midlife crisis) and a single electric car.

In 2025 we consumed 6Mwhr, imported 2.7 & produced from solar 5.1

I assume that OP must have electric heating to account for the extra power use, or just does huge amounts of miles. its about 54kwhr a day consumption.

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#277
post #50
post #34

9-11 year payback isn't bad based on the projections. You could probably goose it a bit with inflation of electrical prices (depends on how the electrical policies change and what they pass through). I'll also add theres some O&M coming down the line. Inverters @ year 10, small maintenance and Im assuming you re-did your roof before you installed. Anyone putting solar up make sure you do it at the same time as a roof…

> I'm assuming you re-did your roof before you installed In the UK I would expect the roof to be tile, which lasts basically forever unless a storm hits hard enough. I did have to have my panels taken down and refitted, at a cost of well over £1000, because I hadn't bird-proofed underneath them (wasn't suggested by original installer). So watch out for that one.

Yeah I need to un pigeon the underneath of mine.

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#278
post #54
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Battery prices are getting really low, if you're willing to do some DIY. Willing and allowed. In some countries it can only be done by certified electricians.

UK considerations: must be at least signed off by an approved electrician ("Part P" regulations), and for any situations involving subsidy needs to be MCS approved as well. https://mcscertified.com/

Find an electrician who will inspect and sign off on your work. It's not illegal as licensed master electricians have mechanics do all the grunt work who are unlicensed. The electrician vouches for his employees work which legitimizes it. No different than you doing the work and having the electrician inspect, call out issues to fix, and inspect again until no issues are found and sign off.

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#279
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any idea why swapping didn't pan out for Tesla? My understanding is they are doing that in China.

What do you mean? It did pan out for Tesla. Faking a single demo granted them 75% more ZEV emissions credit government subsidys [1]. That increased their profits by hundreds of millions of dollars. All they had to do was go on stage and “swap” a battery without any clear video of the process and never “demonstrate” it ever again. This is a company known for faking prominent demos like the FSD demo (where it crashed i…

They didn’t fake the demo, but the legislature quickly rewrote the law because it was intended to give Toyota ZEV credits for hydrogen cars.

Tesla did briefly operate a swap station at the site of the Harris Ranch Supercharger until California changed the rules.

There are several reports from people who used it on teslamotorsclub.com, and I saw it with my own eyes.

Hilarious that your source is Ed Neidermeyer. Perhaps the only thing more impressive than Elon’s lies about the state of self driving are Ed’s lies about how Tesla is going bankrupt Any Day Now.

It’s ok though, Ed’s stock manipulation antics enabled me to stuff my IRA with Tesla shares (since sold, when Elon went nuts) and make a nice little headway on my retirement savings.

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#280
post #81
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average household doesn't have two electric cars though

Yea, averages don't work well when talking about single units without any further details. How many sq/ft is the house? Is it filled with windows facing south? Are they firing a continuous laser beam at the moon? 2-3x usage is actually pretty typical when looking at a single house when comparing to average. It's when you start getting close to an order of mag difference that you're an outlier.

I have an electric car, one powerwall (pre musk midlife crisis) and 5kw solar. we consumed 6mwhrs in 2025. Gas heating and hotwater, about 190w base because of networking, servers and shit left on.
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