Live data from Hacker News

Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs

pcgamer.com

271–280 of 418 posts

Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs

#271

I did use whisper last night to get the captions out of a video file. The standard whisper tool from OpenAI uses CPU. It took more than 20 minutes to fully process a video file that was a little more than an hour long. During that time my 20-Core CPU was pegged at 100% utilization and the fan got very loud. I then downloaded an Intel version that used the NPU. CPUs stayed close to 0% and fans remained quiet. Total ta…

I suggest trying whisper-cpp if you haven't. It's probably the fastest CPU only version.

But yeah, NPUs likely will be faster.

Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs

#272
post #10

> It's not that Dell doesn't care about AI or AI PCs anymore, it's just that over the past year or so it's come to realise that the consumer doesn't. I wish every consumer product leader would figure this out.

I think part of the issue is that it's hard to be "exciting" in a lot of spaces, like desktop computers.

People have more or less converged on what they want on a desktop computers in the last ~30 years. I'm not saying that there isn't room for improvement, but I am saying that I think we're largely at the state of "boring", and improvements are generally going to be more incremental. The problem is that "slightly better than last year" really isn't a super sexy thing to tell your shareholders. Since the US economy has basically become a giant ponzi scheme based more on vibes than actual solid business, everything sort of depends on everything being super sexy and revolutionary and disruptive at all times.

As such, there are going to be many attempts from companies to "revolutionize" the boring thing that they're selling. This isn't inherently "bad", we do need to inject entropy into things or we wouldn't make progress, but a lazy and/or uninspired executive can try and "revolutionize" their product by hopping on the next tech bandwagon.

We saw this nine years ago with "Long Blockchain Ice Tea" [1], and probably way farther back all the way to antiquity.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Blockchain_Corp.

Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs

#273

I don't know how many others here have a CoPilot+ PC but the NPU on it is basically useless. There isn't any meaningful feature I get by having that NPU. They are far too limited to ever do any meaningful local LLM inference, image processing or generation. It handles stuff like video chat background blurring, but users' PC's have been doing that for years now without an NPU.

I'd love to see a thorough breakdown of what these local NPUs can really do. I've had friends ask me about this (as the resident computer expert) and I really have no idea. Everything I see advertised for (blurring, speech to text, etc...) are all things that I never felt like my non-NPU machine struggled with. Is there a single remotely killer application for local client NPUs?

I used to work at Intel until recently. Pat Gelsinger (the prior CEO) had made one of the top goals for 2024 the marketing of the "AI PC".

Every quarter he would have an all company meeting, and people would get to post questions on a site, and they would pick the top voted questions to answer.

I posted mine: "We're well into the year, and I still don't know what an AI PC is and why anyone would want it instead of a CPU+GPU combo. What is an AI PC and why should I want it?" I then pointed out that if a tech guy like me, along with all the other Intel employees I spoke to, cannot answer the basic questions, why would anyone out there want one?

It was one of the top voted questions and got asked. He answered factually, but it still wasn't clear why anyone would want one.

Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't remember any other time in the tech industry's history when "what companies and CEOs want to push" was less connected to "what customers want." Nobody transformed their business around 3D TVs like current companies are transforming themselves to deliver "AI-everything".

The customers are CEOs dreaming of a human-free work force.

Suggested amendment: the customers are CEOs dreaming of Wall Street seeing them as a CEO who will deliver a human-free work force. The press release is the product. The reality of payrolls are incidental to what they really want: stock price go up.

It's all optics, it's all grift, it's all gambling.

Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs

#276
post #180
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't so much the five seconds, it is the muscle memory. You become accustomed to blindly hitting "Yes" every time you've accidentally typed something into the text box, and then that time when you actually put a lot of effort into something... Boom. Its gone. I have been bitten before. Something like the parent described would be a huge improvement. Granted, it seems the even better UX is to save what th…

> You become accustomed to blindly hitting "Yes" every time you've accidentally typed something into the text box, and then that time when you actually put a lot of effort into something... Boom. Its gone. Wouldn't you just hit undo? Yeah, it's a bit obnoxious that Chrome for example uses cmd-shift-T to undo in this case instead of the application-wide undo stack, but I feel like the focus for improving software resi…

Now y'all are just analysing the UX of YouTube and Chrome.

The problem is that by agreeing to close the tab, you're agreeing to discard the comment. There's currently no way to bring it back. There's no way to undo.

AI can't fix that. There is Microsoft's "snapshot" thing but it's really just a waste of storage space.

Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs

#277
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing Apple is behind on in the AI race is LLMs. They've been vastly ahead of everyone else with things like text OCR, image element recognition / extraction, microphone noise suppression, etc. iPhones have had these features 2-5 years before Android did.

Apple’s AI powered image editor (like removing something from the background) is near unusable. Samsung’s is near magic, Google’s seems great. So there’s a big gap here.

[deleted]

Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs

#278
Seems savvy of Dell. With empty AI hype now the default, saying the quiet part out loud is a way to stand out. Unfortunately, it doesn't mean Dell will stop taking MSFT's marketing money to pre-sell the Right-Ctrl key on my keyboard as the "CoPilot" key.

I wouldn't hate this so much if it was just a labeling thing. Unfortunately, MSFT changed how that key works at a low level so it cannot be cleanly remapped back to right-CTRL. This is because, unlike the CTRL, ALT, Shift and Windows keys, the now-CoPilot key no longer behaves like a modifier key. Now when you press the CoPilot key down it generates both key down and key up events - even when you keep it pressed down. You can work around this somewhat with clever key remapping in tools like AutoHotKey but it is literally impossible to fully restore that key back so it will behave like a true modifier key such as right-CTRL in all contexts. There are a limited number of true modifier keys built into a laptop. Stealing one of them to upsell a monetized service is shitty but intentionally preventing anyone from being able to restore it goes beyond shitty to just maliciously evil.

More technical detail: The CoPilot key is really sending: Shift+Alt+Win+Ctrl+F23 which Windows now uses as the shortcut to run the CoPilot application. When you remap the CoPilot key to right-Ctrl only the F23 is being remapped to right-Ctrl. Due to the way Windows works and because MSFT is now sending F23 DOWN and then F23 UP when the CoPilot key has only been pressed Down but not yet released, those other modifiers remain pressed down when our remapped key is sent. I don't know if this was intentional on MSFT's part to break full remapping or if it's a bug. Either way, it's certainly non-standard and completely unnecessary. It would still work for calling the CoPilot app to wait for the CoPilot key to be released to send the F23 KEY UP event. That's the standard method and would allow full remapping of the key.

But instead, when you press CoPilot after remapping it to Right-Ctrl... the keys actually being sent are: Shift+Alt+Win+Right-Ctrl (there are also some other keypresses in there that are masked). If your use case doesn't care that Shift, Alt and Win are also pressed with Right-Ctrl then it'll seem fine - but it isn't. Your CoPilot key remapped to Right-Ctrl no longer works like it did before or like Left-Ctrl still works (sending no other modifiers). Unfortunately, a lot of shortcuts (including several common Windows desktop shortcuts) involve Ctrl in combination with other modifiers. Those shortcuts still work with Left-Ctrl but not CoPilot remapped to Right-Ctrl. And there's no way to fix it with remapping (whether AutoHotKey, PowerToys, Registry Key, etc). It might be possible to fix it with a service running below the level of Windows with full admin control which intercepts the generated keys before Windows ever sees them - but as far as I know, no one has succeeded in creating that.

Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to see a thorough breakdown of what these local NPUs can really do. I've had friends ask me about this (as the resident computer expert) and I really have no idea. Everything I see advertised for (blurring, speech to text, etc...) are all things that I never felt like my non-NPU machine struggled with. Is there a single remotely killer application for local client NPUs?

I used to work at Intel until recently. Pat Gelsinger (the prior CEO) had made one of the top goals for 2024 the marketing of the "AI PC". Every quarter he would have an all company meeting, and people would get to post questions on a site, and they would pick the top voted questions to answer. I posted mine: "We're well into the year, and I still don't know what an AI PC is and why anyone would want it instead of a…

So... what was the answer?

Re: Dell admits consumers don't care about AI PCs

#280

I think the moral of the story is just don't buy any electronics until you absolutely have to now: your laptop, your desktop, your car, your phone, your tv's. Go third party for maintenance when you can. Install Linux when you can. Only buy things that can be maintained and enjoy what you have.

I got a new Subaru and the touchscreen is making me insane. I will avoid electronics in cars as much as possible going forward. It literally has a warning that displays every time you start the car: "Watching this screen and making selections while driving can lead to serious accidents". Then you have to press agree before you can use the A/C or stereo. Like oh attempting to turn the air conditioner on in your car ca…

It's a liability transfer. Thank corp legal.
Post reply on HN