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Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

mod.gov.il

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Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#271
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is designed to save people.

Sure, until someone says "hey can we stick this on a truck and use it against cars?" "Hey can we stick this on the belly of a plane and use it on a building?" "Hey what happens if we do a flash of this at protestors?"

My understand is it would be useless against a building, but you make a good point

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Palestinians patrons need to tell them they aren't going to win militarily against the Israeli's

Not today, but the fertily rate is 2.9 in Israel and 3.9 in Gaza. Even if demographics isn't quite destiny it's generally the way to bet.

Just a reminder pushing people to start wars they can't win is shitty.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#273

[flagged]

I'll bite. Yes, I believe that even if you as a civilian personally voted for someone who ended up being a horrible genocidal dictator, that doesn't make it ethical for the other side to target bombs at you; warfare should be directed at combatants, or at least at the industrial base rather than indiscriminately at civilians.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#274
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question, probably depends a lot on how much energy actually makes it to the target some distance away. And then how much is actually absorbed. Probably depends more on the power density then, rather than total power? Can't imagine they get a very small spot at multiple km unless they use gigantic lenses or multiple independent laser focused on the same spot

I also wonder the extent to which the effectiveness is reduced by painting the projectile white or wrapping it in aluminum foil. Maybe 100kw is so large that it simply does not matter at that power level.

I imagine that it depends greatly on the laser’s spectrum. Aluminium is a good reflector of infrared but not ultraviolet, for example.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets send some over to Ukraine.

And Putin gives a nuke to Iranians then it's game over since Iranians don't care about MAD doctrine. Anyways the risk of the tech falling into Russia's hands is too high. Ukrainians have the smarts to develop it themselves now that it is proven as a viable tech.

Everyone cares about the MAD doctrine, although some people with power may pretend they do not, while others may pretend they believe that those people with power don't care.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data says it’s the Palestinians that need defenses, not the ones doing 95% of the killing. https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties

Israel invests in defending their civilians with technology like Iron Beam. In contrast the Gazan government strategically uses humans shields [2, 3] and despite this the majority of Palestinians still support starting this war by attacking civilians on Oct 7th [1]. Defense technology doesn’t help if you don’t want it unfortunately. Hamas also has hundreds of miles of tunnels which civilians aren’t allowed to use. 1:…

To say that israel invests in defense is at least 1/4 untrue, since the US sends billions every year. The US gave them about 7b cash last year, which is around 1/4 of their defense budget, and doesn’t include things like stationing carriers nearby, or doing airstrikes on houthi blockades.

Us $ to israel: https://usafacts.org/answers/how-much-foreign-aid-does-the-u...

Israel defense budget: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-raise-defen...

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#277
post #85

Personally I think that defensive technology like this is fantastic. It means that innocent citizens will be protected from constant bombardment or thread of bombardment by cheap mass produced rockets or drones. Israeli civilians have faced bombardment by tens of thousands of rockets from Gaza for the last 20 years [1]. Outside the Middle East there's many areas threatened by combatants with similar cheap missiles. P…

Three thoughts: 1. Just to repeat myself from another comment on this thread, there is no such thing as a defensive weapon. Were it not for the various missile shields, the Israeli state wouldn't act with wanton abandon against its own citizens and its neighbours. All of the various war crimes and terror attacks are a direct consequence of the effectiveness of a "defensive" missile shield. Let me pose this question t…

I think you have it backwards. Israel tolerated something like ~30k rocket attacks from Gaza (between 2005-2023) before finally launching a major military campaign that sought to remove Hamas from power.

It would normally be absurd to expect a state with military superiority to tolerate ~30k rocket attacks from its weaker neighbor. That was only tenable because Israel's air defenses mitigated the bulk of the damage.

If Israel's air defenses and bunkers suddenly disappeared, Israel would be forced to respond far more aggressively to each terrorist attack.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#279
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as a defensive weapon. You might be tempted to say "what about a missile shield?" but such a thing allows the owner to act with impunity with levels of violence we arguably haven't seen since 1945. As a real example of this, the only reason a deeper conflict didn't develop with Iran this year was because Iran demonstrated they could overwhelm the various layers of Israel's missile shield and Ir…

> You might be tempted to say "what about a missile shield?" but such a thing allows the owner to act with impunity with levels of violence we arguably haven't seen since 1945. I would still say "what about a missile shield?". If a missile shield is a weapon, because of its affordances, then any object is a weapon. And while that's marginally true I don't think we get anywhere by entertaining category errors. If some…

> If something enables aggression, because it makes counter attacks unreasonable, that seems like a fairly nice thing to have more of

You’re imagining a world where this kind of tech is equally distributed. It’s not. Israel spends something like $30b/year in defense (in part due to ~$7b/year from the US). Gaza has something like $0.3b to spend. The consequence of that asymmetry is one of them has a missile shield, the other has more than 80,000 dead citizens, famine, and virtually no infrastructure left standing.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#280

Personally I think that defensive technology like this is fantastic. It means that innocent citizens will be protected from constant bombardment or thread of bombardment by cheap mass produced rockets or drones. Israeli civilians have faced bombardment by tens of thousands of rockets from Gaza for the last 20 years [1]. Outside the Middle East there's many areas threatened by combatants with similar cheap missiles. P…

Data says it’s the Palestinians that need defenses, not the ones doing 95% of the killing. https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties

Defensive weapons technology is how you get less conflict though.

When some idiot in the ME decides to shoot something at Israel, the character of the response demanded by the population depends heavily on whether any Israelis die or property is destroyed.

Israel didn't aggressively bomb Gaza till October 7 killed a lot of Israelis, even though they were regularly shooting down Hamas launched rockets with Iron Dome.

There is a practical gulf in political and diplomatic options depending on if an attack lands or does not, so much so that whether or not someone can shoot down incoming weaponry is a factor in some diplomatic decisions (I.e. Iran firing missiles at US bases in Qatar).

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