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The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

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Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#271

Post by latexr »

yoan9224 wrote: post #138

The cycle of proposing the same surveillance legislation under different names is exhausting. Chat Control, ProtectEU, Going Dark - same invasive proposals, different branding. What's particularly concerning is the metadata retention scope: "which websites you visit, and who is communicating with whom, when and how often" with "the broadest possible scope of application" including VPN services. This isn't about prote…

Chat Control was never the name of the legislation, it’s the name critics successfully gave to the “Regulation to Prevent and Combat Child Sexual Abuse”.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chat_Control

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#272

Post by latexr »

rjdj377dhabsn wrote: post #103
Sharlin wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not much really, unless the EU takes a big turn to the left. Which is unfortunately not something that's likely to happen anytime soon.

The left? The authoritarian politicians pushing this legislation in the EU are more leftist than right.

They’re center-right.

https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/digital-house-arrest-how-th...

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#273

Post by flir »

brabel wrote: post #256
flir wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/283100/recorded-rape-off... https://www.statista.com/statistics/191137/reported-forcible... https://www.statista.com/statistics/1464272/reported-sexual-... https://www.statista.com/statistics/1418831/sexual-offences-... I realise I respond to a stupid argument. I'm just annoyed.

You cherry picked a few outliers. Here’s a chart showing many countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rape_in_the_Unite... It’s clearly going down in most places, including the USA.

I googled my country, the USA, and the two European countries I have most experience of. I didn't cherry pick anything, I just stopped.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191137/reported-forcible...

I don't know what to tell you, except to say the messiness of the data goes to underline how poorly sourced your claim is.

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#274

Post by habbage »

TehCorwiz wrote: post #269

There’s a common theme in the US to declare the existence of gay and trans people to be child abuse. Yes, existence. Like, telling a child gay people exist if they ask. But the whole “think of the children” schlock has always been a power grab. Otherwise we’d start by eliminating child poverty which is a huge factor in the level of actual abuse they receive.

[flagged]

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#275

Post by tremon »

goda90 wrote: post #94
BlackjackCF wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These should be enshrined into law... and there needs to be some sort of rule to prevent lawmakers from trying to ram through laws with the same spirit without some sort of cool down period. The fact that lawmakers have tried to push the same crap multiple times in the last 4 years despite a ton of opposition and resistance is ridiculous.

People need to do a better job of voting out people who push such laws.

The people who push such laws are not voted in to begin with. Thorn et.al do not have elections.

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#276

Post by tremon »

izacus wrote: post #90
rvnx wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It hasn't stopped the German Interior Ministry from campaigning for EU-wide chat control and pushing to reinstate mass data retention

That's because this campaign is about changing that very law. Saying that "this is blatantly illegal" misses the basic point of this proposal being a CHANGE of the law that makes that illegal.

No, it's even worse. This is an attempt to bypass those laws by bringing in a new one at European level, and having that supersede the obnoxious protections in member states' Constitutions (Germany is hardly the only one with such protections).

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#277

Post by hdgvhicv »

Saline9515 wrote: post #221
vanviegen wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting the existence democracies that only ever implement policies that were a significantly theme during elections?

The EC has no democratic control, their members are not elected, only the commissioners are "approved" by the european parliament. Its actions are also obfuscated and mostly non-public (as we saw in the ChatControl case, for instance), so citizens hardly even know what's happening.

Dunno about European governemt but us secretaries of state are appointed by the head of government just like a commissioner is

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#278

Post by hdgvhicv »

Xelbair wrote: post #229
vanviegen wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting the existence democracies that only ever implement policies that were a significantly theme during elections?

I'm suggesting that there are enough layers of interdiction, that you can easily 'wash' political fallout and push legislation that would otherwise get you voted out of office in local elections.

In the U.K. you can vote for local councillors all you want, won’t make any difference to Westminster

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#279

Post by paulryanrogers »

quotemstr wrote: post #50
paulryanrogers wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because some education implementations have problems doesn't mean education itself must be excluded from the solution. Public education and universities played a large role in freeing me from generations of magical thinking and religious indoctrination.

Universities may have cured us of some forms of indoctrination but exposed us to others: for example, nuclear power was demonized for decades is academia and our avoiding it has set us back as a civilization. The "answer" here isn't education per se. A would-be censor might look at the spread of an inconvenient idea and conclude the education isn't working and therefore harder measures are justified. The answer is ep…

Nuclear isn't a silver bullet. Producing, handling, and disposing of its fuel is dangerous and carbon-intense. My state college wasn't anti-nuclear. I think the fundamentals just don't make much sense as solar, wind, and other sources have improved.

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#280

Post by latentsea »

Jigsy wrote: post #255
latentsea wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Publically accessible doesn't necessarily mean legal.

They're all long established websites. The oldest one I have an account on (and use to get posters) is 2007.

Also doesn't mean they're legal.
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