Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

e360.yale.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 524 posts

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#271

Post by JumpCrisscross »

raldi wrote: post #253
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #199

I'm curious how congestion pricing became a national issue. The strength of conviction people have about this policy–almost either way, but certainly among those against–seems to scale with distance from the city. Nobody in Idaho gets uppity about New Jersey's tolls. But they have strong, knowledge-free, almost identity-defining opinions about congestion charges. Is it because it's a policy that's worked in Europe an…

It’s a national issue because as soon as one city tries it out and it turns out to be pretty good and none of the doom scenarios ensue, congestion-charge opponents all over America lose most of their talking points. Best they can do now is, “Well, we’re not New York.”

> Best they can do now is, “Well, we’re not New York"

But that's a real argument. They're not a $1.3tn economy ($1tn of which is Manhattan alone) [1] with fewer than one car per household (0.26 in Manhattan) [2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_New_York_City

[2] https://www.hunterurban.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Car-L...

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#272

Post by rcpt »

thmsths wrote: post #240
somewhereoutth wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and would it be true to say that regenerative braking on electric cars reduces significantly this dust?

I recall a discussion on HN explaining that while true, this might be offset by the higher average weight of EVs, leading to more dust from the tires and the road. Again, no easy solution unfortunately, just trade offs.

That sounds like a stretch tbh

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#273

Post by OkayPhysicist »

taeric wrote: post #227
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #199

I'm curious how congestion pricing became a national issue. The strength of conviction people have about this policy–almost either way, but certainly among those against–seems to scale with distance from the city. Nobody in Idaho gets uppity about New Jersey's tolls. But they have strong, knowledge-free, almost identity-defining opinions about congestion charges. Is it because it's a policy that's worked in Europe an…

Feels like this is the curse of modern US politics. I'm convinced the majority of people that "want high speed rail in CA" don't live in CA. Further away they live, the stronger they will argue for why we should have it.

You run in very different social circles than I do. The only complaint I have ever heard about California's high speed rail plan (as a life-long Bay Area resident) is how damn long it's taking because of the yokels claiming it'll annoy their cows and almonds.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#274

Post by pif »

iambateman wrote: post #255
thmsths wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall a discussion on HN explaining that while true, this might be offset by the higher average weight of EVs, leading to more dust from the tires and the road. Again, no easy solution unfortunately, just trade offs.

If that were true of tires, you would expect an EV’s tires to get substantially less range before wearing out…which I don’t believe is the case.

It is actually the case!

That's why your choice of tires on online sites gets so smaller as soon as you tuck the "electric/hybrid vehicle" case!

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#275

Post by paddleon »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #11

There was a study published about how much air pollution dropped in NYC during the COVID lockdown. PM2.5 was found to have dropped 36%. However with more robust analysis, this drop was discovered to not be statistically significant. I would caution anyone reading this who is tempted by confirmation bias. Source: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7314691/

We have fruit trees in our backyard. The year of the COVID lockdown they had so much fruit the branches broke from the weight. Most fruit I've seen in 20 years in the house, by a large margin.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#276

Post by JumpCrisscross »

jpfromlondon wrote: post #86
theurerjohn3 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is it? i dont see the relevant other studies, and my initial assumptions would be that the median subway user is lower income than the median car driver in NYC, so transfering funds from car drivers to subway improvements would be progressive. However NYC's transit is notoriously bad at spending, so not sure it would achive that. Which studies linked in this thread are you refering to? I cant see them.

Regular driving in large working cities is usually only done out of professional necesscity and people who drive for a living tend to be in lower socioeconomic bands. How many people on Wallstreet do you know that drive to work?

> How many people on Wallstreet do you know that drive to work?

A lot. Also white-shoe lawyers. They live in Greenwich, Westchester or Westport and drive into the city. (And still, they often park uptown because driving in the congestion zone is annoying and expensive.)

The poor in New York don't drive. If they do, they do so to earn an income. Less congestion helps with that.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#277

Post by scottyah »

nabla9 wrote: post #69
biophysboy wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that true for slower moving vehicles? I can't imagine there's a lot of brake dust generated by stopping & starting in the 0-10 mph range.

Tires and brakes. With EV's this gets relatively worse because they are heavier.

EV's almost never use brakes, and the weight difference isn't really that much. A base trim model 3 is less than 10% heavier than a base trim Camry.

https://www.truecar.com/compare/tesla-model-3_standard-vs-to...

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#278

Post by doug_durham »

Spivak wrote: post #116
Angostura wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a lot if EV buyers are interested in the environmental impact of their purchase?

I say this as someone who owns an electric scooter and whose next car will be an EV—the sales pitch for EVs right now is basically pay more (especially now that the tax credit is gone) to have a worse time and maybe eventually claw some of it back over the lifetime of the car in fuel savings. The environmental impact is the pro in the pro con list. So if that doesn't pan out, or doesn't pan out enough it's going to b…

My EV is the best most fun car I've ever owned. I had a V8 Mercedes E430 and my EV is faster and more fun to drive. You have it backwards. Having and ICE car is accepting a worse time in exchange for government subsidies on Oil.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#279

Post by CryptoBanker »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #184
PunchyHamster wrote: post #115

No mention about change in average commute time?

21 minutes faster. https://www.tomtom.com/newsroom/explainers-and-insights/the-...

That was true at the beginning of congestion pricing and perhaps over the summer, but it is definitely not true anymore

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#280

Post by CGMthrowaway »

paddleon wrote: post #275
CGMthrowaway wrote: post #11

There was a study published about how much air pollution dropped in NYC during the COVID lockdown. PM2.5 was found to have dropped 36%. However with more robust analysis, this drop was discovered to not be statistically significant. I would caution anyone reading this who is tempted by confirmation bias. Source: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7314691/

We have fruit trees in our backyard. The year of the COVID lockdown they had so much fruit the branches broke from the weight. Most fruit I've seen in 20 years in the house, by a large margin.

That's an awesome story
Post reply on HN