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DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

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Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#271

Post by chinesedessert »

pembrook wrote: post #260
gradus_ad wrote: post #101

How will the Google/Anthropic/OpenAI's of the world make money on AI if open models are competitive with their models? What hurt open source in the past was its inability to keep up with the quality and feature depth of closed source competitors, but models seem to be reaching a performance plateau; the top open weight models are generally indistinguishable from the top private models. Infrastructure owners with acce…

I call this the "Karl Marx Fallacy." It assumes a static basket of human wants and needs over time, leading to the conclusion competition will inevitably erode all profit and lead to market collapse. It ignores the reality of humans having memetic emotions, habits, affinities, differentiated use cases & social signaling needs, and the desire to always want to do more...constantly adding more layers of abstraction in…

this name is illogical as karl marx did not commit this fallacy

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#272

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

deaux wrote: post #259
siliconc0w wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> For example, a small random percentage of the time, it could add a subtle security vulnerability to any code generation. Now on the HN frontpage: "Google Antigravity just wiped my hard drive" Sure going to be hard to distinguish these Chinese models' "intentionally malicious actions"! And the cherry on top: - Written from my iPhone 16 Pro Max (Made in China)

Where does the software come from? Your iPhone can’t magically intercept communications and send it to China without the embedded software. If Apple can’t verify the integrity of its operating system before it is installed on iPhones. There are some huge issues.

Even if China did manage to embed software on the iPhone in Taiwan, it would soon hopefully be wiped since you usually end up updating the OS anyway as soon as you activate it.

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#273

Post by tomhow »

kriops wrote: post #179
coliveira wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Competitor != adversary. It is US warmongering ideology that tries to equate these concepts.

[flagged]

Several of your comments in this subthread have broken the guidelines. The guidelines ask us not to use HN for political/ideological battle and to "assume good faith". They ask us to "be kind", "eschew flamebait", and ask that "comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less as a topic gets more divisive."

The topic itself, like any topic, is fine to discuss here, but care must be taken to discuss it in a de-escalatory way. The words you use and the way you use them matter.

Most importantly, it's not OK to write "it is however entirely reasonable to assume that the comment I replied to was made entirely in bad faith". That's a swipe and a personal attack that, as the guidelines ask, should be edited out.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#274

Post by tokioyoyo »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #228
tokioyoyo wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big enterprise with mostly private companies as their clients? Lol, yeah, that’s how they work from my personal experience. The reality is, if it’s not a tech-first enterprise and already outsource part of tech to a shop outside of NA (which is almost majority at this point), they will do absolutely everything to cut the costs.

I spent three years working in consulting mostly in public sector and education and the last two working with startups to mid size commercial interest and a couple of financial institutions. Before that I spent 6 years working between 3 companies in health care in a tech lead role. I’m 100% sure that any of those companies would I have immediately questioned my judgment for suggesting DeepSeek if had been a thing. Ab…

I've worked with financial services, and insurance providers that would have done the opposite for cost saving measures. So, I'm not sure what to say here.

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#275

Post by tomhow »

coliveira wrote: post #170
kriops wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Competitor != adversary. It is US warmongering ideology that tries to equate these concepts.

> It is US warmongering ideology that tries to equate these concepts

Please don't engage in political battle here, including singling out a country for this kind of criticism. No matter how right you are or feel you are, it inevitably leads to geopolitical flamewar, which has happened here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#276

Post by tomhow »

delaminator wrote: post #220
coliveira wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Competitor != adversary. It is US warmongering ideology that tries to equate these concepts.

you clearly haven't been paying attention remember when the US bugged EU leader's phones, including Merkel from 2002 to 2013?

> you clearly haven't been paying attention

Please don't be snarky or condescending in HN comments. From the guidelines: Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#277

Post by contrarian1234 »

tokioyoyo wrote: post #210
hhh wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No… Nobody I work for will touch these models. The fear is real that they have been poisoned or have some underlying bomb. Plus y’know, they’re produced by China, so they would never make it past a review board in most mega enterprises IME.

People say that, but everyone, including enterprises, are constantly buying Chinese tech one way or another because of cost/quality ratio. There’s a tipping point in any excel file where risks don’t make sense, if the cost is 20x for the same quality. Of course you’ll always have exceptions (government, military and etc.), but for private, winner will take it all.

The xenaphobia is still very much there. Chinese tech is sanitized through Taiwanese middlemen (Foxconn, Asus, Acer etc). If you try to use Chinese tech or funding directly you will have a lot of pushback from VCs, financial institutions and business partners. China is the boogieman

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#278

Post by deaux »

spullara wrote: post #62

I hate that their model ids don't change as they change the underlying model. I'm not sure how you can build on that. % curl https://api.deepseek.com/models \ -H "Authorization: Bearer ${DEEPSEEK_API_KEY}" {"object":"list","data":[{"id":"deepseek-chat","object":"model","owned_by":"deepseek"},{"id":"deepseek-reasoner","object":"model","owned_by":"deepseek"}]}

Anthropic has done similar before (changing model behavior on the same dated endpoint).

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#279

Post by eldenring »

singularity2001 wrote: post #218

Why are there so few 32,64,128,256,512 GB models which could run on current consumer hardware? And why is the maximum RAM on Mac studio M4 128 GB??

the only real benefit is privacy which 99.9% of people dont get about. Almost all serving metrics (cost, throughput, ttft) are better with large gpu clusters. Latency is usually hidden by prefill cost.

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#280

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

tokioyoyo wrote: post #274
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent three years working in consulting mostly in public sector and education and the last two working with startups to mid size commercial interest and a couple of financial institutions. Before that I spent 6 years working between 3 companies in health care in a tech lead role. I’m 100% sure that any of those companies would I have immediately questioned my judgment for suggesting DeepSeek if had been a thing. Ab…

I've worked with financial services, and insurance providers that would have done the opposite for cost saving measures. So, I'm not sure what to say here.

Regulators would have the head of any financial institution that used a Chinese model.
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